Great Players Recommendation beginners' listening, famous, infamous and also more obscure.

[JayeNM]

No, I was no more sophisticated than anyone else. I was fortunate to have a group of older friends of my brother’s to guide me. My teacher was awesome and played a bit with Bird. 50% of my lessons were discussing great players and why they were exceptional. So I simply had a great indoctrination. I was never the best player on the stand, but I knew why.

Sophistication when it comes to music has nothing to do with how good a player on the stand you may or may not be...rather an aspect has to do with what you are capable of recognizing at a particular point in your development.

For a teen or pre-teen to listen to Dolphy or Coltrane and actually appreciate it, enjoy it, or have it inspire, instead of confuse or flat-out intimidate....is fairly advanced, is all,

I would doubt greatly moist budding musicians or jazz fans would have that reaction....matter of fact I can go further than just doubt, I have been told by folks over the decades.
Most players and listeners eventually "come to them", usually after some years of developing a jazz familiarity.
Not all, obviously, but most.

 

[JayeNM]

To bring people into the jazz realm, you have to show them beauty. You have to draw them in.

Yup. Even beyond bringing people in, IMHO.

Still holds true for me today, after having played my first jazz song when I was a 5th grader, owning my first jazz album when I was a 7th grader.

Things like beauty, humor or cleverness, tone, funkiness.... in a player's playing have always been more of a draw for me that cutting edge ingenuity or monstrous chops or a relatively complex modus operandi on composition and soloing,

I now understand the genius in those who possessed and recorded and championed the latter ....but given an opportunity to throw on a tune to listen to, or add one to my own preferred playing repertoire, I will still gravitate towards those possessing the former traits....

But the 'draw them in' is the big thing...and I think on this thread, some people feel that way - while others are in a more "just throw a bunch of awesome players at them that I really LIKE, NOW (after being a player for 10-40 years).... and let them sift thru it, because this of course EXPOSES them to the widest examples" ...sorta vein.

While I understand that mode of thinking, I do not find it particularly sympathetic to understanding the position of a newbie with a potential curiosity....I do not think the two things go hand in hand.

Do you wanna expose someone to widest examples of players and styles, or are you more intent upon providing a list which includes a number of genres yet keeps the material at a level understandable and attractive to a starting player or listener ?

Those two intentions are different things.

 

[JayeNM]

I remember having Kenny G's first LP and he played a lot of tenor on that. A funkier groove, despite the title trak being Songbird.

Actually Kenny G's first LP release was not the one with Songbird.
Duotones contained Songbird...that was actually his THIRD solo LP release.

Sonbird was never a title track, at least not here in the US....

I think the first album was just called Kenny G, wasn't it ? An album totally forgotten....

That one was right when he started his solo recording career, 1982 or '83 ?...that WAS a pretty good album...Jeff Lorber produced, I think, at the time when The Jeff Lorber Fusion was at its peak....so it maintained a lot of classic, apex Fusion sensibilities, inlcuding a couple of Lorber compositions.... although you could also start hearing the kernel of them wanting to engage more in a pop direction.

That was a pretty decent recording, although it did not break the crossover .....

 

[taiwanpaul]

Actually Kenny G's first LP release was not the one with Songbird.
Duotones contained Songbird...that was actually his THIRD solo LP release.

Sonbird was never a title track, at least not here in the US....

I think the first album was just called Kenny G, wasn't it ? An album totally forgotten....

That one was right when he started his solo recording career, 1982 or '83 ?...that WAS a pretty good album...Jeff Lorber produced, I think, at the time when The Jeff Lorber Fusion was at its peak....so it maintained a lot of classic, apex Fusion sensibilities, inlcuding a couple of Lorber compositions.... although you could also start hearing the kernel of them wanting to engage more in a pop direction.

That was a pretty decent recording, although it did not break the crossover .....

Shows how good my memory is! First Kenny G LP I had! Still some great funky tenor on it though.

 

[MikeMorrell]

One more I'd like to throw in as a nice suggestion for a newbie....

Some of the albums by ABDULLAH IBRAHIM (Dollar Brand) which have sax/horn heavy compositions....they are pretty melodically/harmonically simple yet their connection to African roots is unmistakable.

View: https://youtu.be/OslM-TzYbTk?si=69Y316wtOaVnw38j

View: https://youtu.be/ZYkTFUGRHCo?si=DwHqF5CWEQfEwQB2

Many thanks for sharing, @JayeNM. New for me but I loved both tracks. I think the second one, especially, would be great for 'beginners'. And for sax players learning to improvise too!

 

[MikeMorrell]

To bring people into the jazz realm, you have to show them beauty. The current average listener is so used to the musical equivalent of cream of wheat and cola, that giving them a full on 7-course haute cuisine French meal will just overwhelm them. True for jazz AND classical. Trane? Bird? Bartok? Stravinsky?

Better start with a good gourmet burger and some perfectly done shoestring potatoes. I.E., Grover Washington or Wes Montgomery. Or maybe some Mozart with a little well-tempered Bach on the side. You have to draw them in.

I'm not sure that anyone should try to 'bring people into the jazz realm'. I'm a great believer in 'self-motivated (and self-directed)' learning. Depending on the age, education and maturity of any' beginner', they well may already have preferences for a musical genre. Or goals oriented towards their local 'playing in a band' opportunities. And these preferences and goals are likely to evolve naturally over time.

In my case (just as an example), I took up playing sax aged aged 40 after playing (rock, folk, classical, and finally Renaissance/Baroque) guitar music at home between the ages of 10 and 40. In that time, my musical 'listening preferences' had musically evolved from 'Pop' and 'Rock' to include 'Classical' and then 'Folk music' and (some) 'jazz'. My exposure to 'jazz' in my 20's was mainly through Joni Mitchell's 'Don Juan's Reckless Daughter' (1977) album featuring - amongst others) - Jaco Pastorius on Bass and Wayne Shorter on sax. I'd followed Joni Mitchell ever since her 'Blue' album and this album had a very different (jazz) vibe. A year later, I (coincidentally) attended a performance of the 'Pat Metheny Group' in the front row of a small Norwegian pub during a jazz festival. As a (then) guitarist, this "electric jazz'' performance completely blew me away! Much later (as a keyboard fan) I also discovered Keith Jarret and through him, sax players like Jan Garbarek (who was on the same 'label' as Jarret.

So by the time I took up sax (as an absolute beginner) aged 40, I'd already been exposed to a wide range of music. But my goal was (socially) to join a local band rather than continue to play Renaissance/Baroque music on my guitar at home. My only local band was a 'Wind Orchestra' (playing 'light classical music), which after 6 months of sax tuition, I managed to get into. But I decided to get an extra year's (subsided) tuition at a local music school. I dutifully followed the 'classical sax' tuition for 3 months before confessing to my (classical) sax tutor that I really wanted to learn how to play 'blues/jazz' tunes on sax. After much discussion, he agreed. On condition that I would play 'the dots' exactly as notated. So I did, and got my 'B diploma' which was (formally) the requisite for playing in amateur bands. So I played exclusively 'light classical music' for almost 10 years before getting fed up with the band. I stopped playing for a couple of years before joining a 'Big Band' in a different city. I didn't much enjoy listening to 'Big Band' music but I enjoyed playing it much more than playing 'light classical music'.

In hindsight, I could have been a lot more 'self-motivated and self-directed' in playing both guitar (in bands) and in playing sax. But it is what it is and I have no regrets. Apart from not learning to play sax at an earlier age and not practicing more often 😉.

My only main point is this: IMHO 'beginners' choose their development path consciously or sub-consciously mainly based on their current musical preferences, opportunities and goals. And less on 'what their exposed to'.

I might be well out of line with this comment, but I do see that a number of my current Big Band members only started to add other musical genres/bands to their activities some years after they could have been called 'beginners'. Somehow some degree of 'competence' seems to give members (including me) the confidence to branch out into different musical genres.

So IMHO there's something to be said for letting 'beginners' settle in to (and gain experience with) the musical 'genre' that best suits their musical preferences and (perhaps) 'playing in a band' opportunities.

Mike

PS. I freely admit that my main ambition in 'playing sax' is (socially and musically) 'playing in a band'

 

[JayeNM]

I'm not sure that anyone should try to 'bring people into the jazz realm'. I'm a great believer in 'self-motivated (and self-directed)' learning. Depending on the age, education and maturity of any' beginner', they well may already have preferences for a musical genre. Or goals oriented towards their local 'playing in a band' opportunities.

All true...again, the OP post was a bit vague in exactly what the ostensible context was.

IOW...can we assume it ot be a situation where a budding player/listener requested of you to provide some suggestions ? That is the way I interpreted it.

Second thing is....if it would be a completely unsolicited list of suggestions...IOW you took it upon yourself to think 'it'd be nice if I offered some listening advice'....then I agree with your position.

Thirdly....I think , as has been discussed before here, Sax has SUCH a connection/association WITH Jazz that when a jazz sax player is confronted with the opportunity to offer, they are probably gonna be a little presumptuous and offer some listening material regardless.

It would be far less so with a guitarist, flutist, drummer, even pianist quite honestly...

BUT....on the other hand...I HAVE known sax players who I "offered" either a list to, or "offered" some simple suggestions on how to get into simple improv...and they really had ZERO interest at all.

Some college kids were like that. They LOVED playing sax section in concert band or marching...and they really worked at it, they weren't lazy.
Their site reading was good, their phrasing was good, you could have a discussion about musical stuff with them...but they stopped their interest right THERE.
They just wanted to be accomplished at occupying a large-band chair and do a good job with it.
No interest in playing rock, pop, blues, jazz...as a sideman or frontman....

Likewise the more contemporary sorta sax player we have seen surface.... who just likes learning the melodies then maybe taking one or two choruses of just noodling around but staying VERY close to the melody, then taking a chorus out.
Oftentimes seen accompanied by a hi-tech karaoke rig. No interest in expanding beyond that, it satisfies them nicely.

So.....yeah, there are a lot of those sorta players....

 

[Alex]

Они ОБОЖАЛИ играть на саксофонах в духовном оркестре или маршевом оркестре... и они действительно много работали, они не были ленивыми.
Они хорошо читали ноты, хорошо подбирали слова, с ними можно было обсуждать музыкальные темы... но на этом их интерес и закончился.
Они просто хотели преуспеть в роли руководителя большого оркестра и хорошо выполнить свою работу.
Не заинтересован в исполнении рока, поп-музыки, блюза, джаза... ни в качестве сайдмена, ни в качестве фронтмена...

Я много работал в духовых оркестрах, но мне никогда не нравилась эта работа. Она была слишком однообразной.

Translation added by mod courtesy of Google

I worked a lot in brass bands, but I never liked that work. It was too monotonous

 

[Pete Effamy]

Я много работал в духовых оркестрах, но мне никогда не нравилась эта работа. Она была слишком однообразной.

It’s all Greek to me

 

[Pete Thomas]

Я много работал в духовых оркестрах, но мне никогда не нравилась эта работа. Она была слишком однообразной.

Er... please post in English!

 

[Alex]

Er... please post in English!

Sorry, I wrote and inserted the original text in English. I don't understand, what happened. Moderators, please delete my previous post!

 

[PigSquealer]

Sorry, I wrote and inserted the original text in English. I don't understand, what happened. Moderators, please delete my previous post!

Just edit the post. Просто отредактируйте пост.

 

[Jeanette]

Sorry, I wrote and inserted the original text in English. I don't understand, what happened. Moderators, please delete my previous post!

Just edit the post. Просто отредактируйте пост.

Done in original post

Jx

 

[Alex]

Just edit the post.

I'm sorry, but for some reason I don't see the "Edit" option. It just doesn't exist. ((

 

[Jeanette]

I'm sorry, but for some reason I don't see the "Edit" option. It just doesn't exist. ((

No worries there is a time limit to edit

Jx

 

[JayeNM]

I worked a lot in brass bands, but I never liked that work. It was too monotonous

Me too, but for some people they really like having just a limited role and doing it well. I can respect that, even if like you, I think I would get bored.

Think about it, there are players that only play blues...literally...for like 50 years...that's all. And they can be great at it, and they still like doing it.

When I came back to playing after a 10-year hiatus, I re-started in a blues band just to get my chops back.
I enjoyed it for around 4 months then I itched to get into more challenging genres again....

 

[Alex]

there are players that only play blues...literally...for like 50 years...that's all. And they can be great at it, and they still like doing it.

I knew a guitarist who specialized only in the in the style of Latin American music. For some reason, he couldn't do anything else and didn't want to play. Such musical limitations are surprising and incomprehensible to me.

 

[JayeNM]

I knew a guitarist who specialized only in the in the style of Latin American music. For some reason, he couldn't do anything else and didn't want to play. Such musical limitations are surprising and incomprehensible to me.

That can be the danger, right ?

A guy here, Brazilian, guitarist, quite good but he has this ...thing.

He says that americans do not play bossa novas "correctly", so literally when the rest of the band is doing bossas, like tunes we have done 500 times, he will SIT OUT. ...or try to CALL OFF the tune (when it isn't his band 😳).
Like, he won't adjust to whatever we are doing (not just WE, everyone pretty much). He is fine on swing and ballads, etc.

So...he never gets called for a gig, understandably.

 

[Alex]

He says that americans do not play bossa novas "correctly", so literally when the rest of the band is doing bossas, like tunes we have done 500 times, he will SIT OUT. ...or try to CALL OFF the tune (when it isn't his band 😳).

Snobbery is disgusting.