Saxophones Pork Tales: Saxophone Repair DIY Adventures.

Life around the barn.

Tales from a pig that likes to stick his nose into everything.

Paint that S. How difficult could it be ?

1) Search the net.
2) Find the color.
3) Order color.
4) Study task on University of YouTube, aka; For destruction by DYI presented by pro tech.

Do the cleaning & prep.

Paint and cleanup / detail the edges with hard cotton swabs. Sounds easy……

Yeah tha guy Matt makes it look easy.
Anyone remember your first experience cooking bacon crispy while still in the frying pan !

 

[thomsax]

Someone got lucky.

Yes, but I didn't bought it. I already have too many saxes. I need to play more.

 

[Woodpad]

Nice doughnut pad on the second picture.

 

[Tuppertn]

Currently a 57 Alto is listed on Fleabay @ $600 USD/ £438.00.GBP / 5,355 SEK

I'd love to have a set of 57's. I was ready to pounce on that one for that price, but it looks like it's got a few issues. It's got a few posts pushed in or well out of alignment, bent keys, one key guide is completely broken off. The strap ring is worn half way through so it's seen a fair bit of play time in its day.

 

[PigSquealer]

Nice doughnut pad on the second picture.

That pad is brick hard 😕…. yeah, it looks Great ! .
The setup I think is to prevent upper C from playing sharp🤔…. I’m not astute on SOP faults or oddities like openhole pads. So ?
The center C tone hole looks like it was done with a hand rasp. Far from crisp edges. What’s correct 🫣 I guess we all get to learn about this 🤔
The chimney…ouch ! Ca Chink or factory blemish? Who knows? Stuff happens. I hop to make these work. That’s what matters…..

If I can get my paws on all of those gifted in lot……I will gladly review. Then come up with a plan for repairs.
View as adventures in uncharted waters for sure.
Good or on the rocks ? Well, I can’t tell you yet 🤔

 

[Woodpad]

Enough chimney left to make it work,.

 

[mark_addy]

Enough chimney left to make it work,.

Can I ask you about that? In a previous life I worked on acoustic design (mostly for small plastic things like phone enclosures, fire alarm sounders, garden power tools (!) etc. I even taught the mechanics of speech production for a bit which bears some similarities, but never worked on wind instruments) and I'd expect shortening the length of a Helmholtz 'slug' air tube to decrease its acoustic mass and so raise any associated resonance in pitch (with a similar effect occurring if one increases the x-sec area of the tube). Does the length of the 'chimney' have that effect on a sax? I was told by a friend who plays, that bagpipe chanters are tuned by opening up the holes (to go sharper) and by undercutting them from inside with an odd tool (reducing 'chimney' length) to go sharper still. I wonder if saxes work the same.

 

[PigSquealer]

Enough chimney left to make it work,.

The void is 0,05 x 0,125.
The chimney is maybe 3mm x 6mm
A spot of solder will do.

 

[Woodpad]

Can I ask you about that? In a previous life I worked on acoustic design (mostly for small plastic things like phone enclosures, fire alarm sounders, garden power tools (!) etc. I even taught the mechanics of speech production for a bit which bears some similarities, but never worked on wind instruments) and I'd expect shortening the length of a Helmholtz 'slug' air tube to decrease its acoustic mass and so raise any associated resonance in pitch (with a similar effect occurring if one increases the x-sec area of the tube). Does the length of the 'chimney' have that effect on a sax? I was told by a friend who plays, that bagpipe chanters are tuned by opening up the holes (to go sharper) and by undercutting them from inside with an odd tool (reducing 'chimney' length) to go sharper still. I wonder if saxes work the same.

The frequency of a saxophone tone depends on more than 20 variables. Different from the bagpipe the distance between pad and tone hole has a strong effect. When removed the frequency can go 50% up on a tuner. The height of the chimney has a smaller effect. It is often thought that there is a virtual cone at the mouthpiece. I favor another idea, that the location of the pad to the tone hole lengthens the acoustic tube by defining the end of it beyond the chimney. In general I am against serious shortening of the chimney.

 

[mark_addy]

Thanks Woodpad. 'Classical' acoustics has a reason for the location of the (open) pad doing things to the tuning - it will change the acoustic impedance 'seen' by the air in the open hole. In maths that impedance has a real and an imaginary (that's maths imaginary...it's really there!) part, where the real part has to do with the acoustic power radiated at the open hole, and the imaginary part has the effect of making the tube a bit longer, acoustically, than it would appear to be if you measured it with a ruler (simplified as the 'end correction' when applied to eg. organ pipes). The presence of the open pad will alter the impedance result from the approximation of a 'plane circular piston in an infinite baffle' (that's a Googlable phrase but I'm not sure I would advise anyone to go there!) which acousticians in general, and loudspeaker designers in particular, often reach for. Acoustic impedance can be quite hard to measure - it's the ratio of pressure (easy - find a mic) to the dynamic velocity of air 'particles' (rather harder to measure in practice).

It's over a decade since I worked in this area, and I now need a lie down 🙂

 

[Woodpad]

Thanks Woodpad. 'Classical' acoustics has a reason for the location of the (open) pad doing things to the tuning - it will change the acoustic impedance 'seen' by the air in the open hole. In maths that impedance has a real and an imaginary (that's maths imaginary...it's really there!) part, where the real part has to do with the acoustic power radiated at the open hole, and the imaginary part has the effect of making the tube a bit longer, acoustically, than it would appear to be if you measured it with a ruler (simplified as the 'end correction' when applied to eg. organ pipes). The presence of the open pad will alter the impedance result from the approximation of a 'plane circular piston in an infinite baffle' (that's a Googlable phrase but I'm not sure I would advise anyone to go there!) which acousticians in general, and loudspeaker designers in particular, often reach for. Acoustic impedance can be quite hard to measure - it's the ratio of pressure (easy - find a mic) to the dynamic velocity of air 'particles' (rather harder to measure in practice).

It's over a decade since I worked in this area, and I now need a lie down 🙂

Take a good rest. Acoustics is not one of my areas but an imaginary length of pipe at the side of the tone hole looks better to me than an imaginary cone at the other end. Nice that it has a theoretical base in acoustics.

 

[PigSquealer]

@Woodpad @mark_addy I’ve added to my archive library some links on acoustical information.
See posts #24-#26
Repair threads and links by PigSquealer
Tech/maintenance - Repair threads and links by PigSquealer

 

[Keshr]

What is the Union 76 antenna ball for?

 

[PigSquealer]

What is the Union 76 antenna ball for?
View attachment 33125

There’s actually two. They are precision placed for video taped rubber glove pressure test. When RH2 points to upper 76 ball that’s 14.7 PSI @ sea level. Test starts. At low pressure RH-P is .125 psi. Lower 76 ball test ends. If the horn holds at least half for the time it takes the average reader to understand this is a joke. Well it’s the reason for man cave decor. I have a Goodyear blimp too.

 

[Keshr]

And I thought you were going to say something boring like it was an anti-warble ball, like my d8 shaped dryer ball that worked great on the Buescher I had.

 

[Colin the Bear]

A saxophonist, now deceased, kept a rubber glove in the bell. It made its waving appearance on a sustained Bb to much mirth in the audience. His name escapes me. 🤔

 

[PigSquealer]

His name escapes me. 🤔

Freudenberg Marigold ll, C tenor man. Always used a blue left glove turned inside out to make it play right. And that’s why they call it “Playing the Blues”.

 

[Stephen Howard]

The chimney…ouch ! Ca Chink or factory blemish? Who knows? Stuff happens. I hop to make these work. That’s what matters…..

Factory blemish. I used to see a lot of this sort of thing on early Ultra-Cheap horns. It's caused by something going wrong in the drawing process - either a fault in the alloy or a machining error. Possibly both.
A less-common fault was a split at the base of the tonehole.

And there were a few occasions where such faults had been 'repaired' by...sticking a slice of fabric plaster over the split.

Tix soft solder does a decent job of patching such splits.

 

[PigSquealer]

Factory blemish. I used to see a lot of this sort of thing on early Ultra-Cheap horns. It's caused by something going wrong in the drawing process - either a fault in the alloy or a machining error. Possibly both.
A less-common fault was a split at the base of the tonehole.

And there were a few occasions where such faults had been 'repaired' by...sticking a slice of fabric plaster over the split.

Tix soft solder does a decent job of patching such splits.

Ma Squealer & I both under the weather this week. A nasty cold gifted from Mini Squealer unintentionally… as educators receive gifts from students way too often 😤
I’ve been limping along just after the car show….felt ill late Monday.
Better today (Friday) after days in bed. Damm dry cough!! No fever last night and today. Ma S not far behind.

Back to bench late today (Friday)
Yeh, thanks for sharing your past experiences. Seems like there were early learning stages in production. Lack of consistent heat treatment for needs. Crack probably passed as the puffy pad was able to fill the void.

 

[PigSquealer]

More on this can of worms to follow ….there’s a story about these pictures. Stuff that happens. It’s not all golden truffles 😒

 

[Woodpad]

Ma Squealer & I both under the weather this week. A nasty cold gifted from Mini Squealer unintentionally… as educators receive gifts from students way too often 😤
I’ve been limping along just after the car show….felt ill late Monday.
Better today (Friday) after days in bed. Damm dry cough!! No fever last night and today. Ma S not far behind.

Back to bench late today (Friday)
Yeh, thanks for sharing your past experiences. Seems like there were early learning stages in production. Lack of consistent heat treatment for needs. Crack probably passed as the puffy pad was able to fill the void.
View attachment 33191

From the imprint you can see that the pad was too thick, heavy imprint on the axis side and much less on the opposite side.