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Left pinky table keys angle adjustment

saxyjt

Saxus Circus Maximus
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I have had this YAS-23 for a few days now and as I'm trying to fine tune it after many years hiding in a bag without even seing the light of day, I have inadvertedly weaken the C# spring too much causing the key to lift too easily when playing low B or Bb. At first, I didn't see that and though it was my finger hitting the C# key when playing B or Bb and that happens too. Later models, like the YTS-25 I currently play, have an additional mechanism that prevents this C# key to lift when hitting B/Bb keys, so I did not suffer from it before.

So I was considering adjusting the angle of the pinky table keys to try and make them better aligned with my finger so I don't catch the C# when going for the Bb.

Is this something that is frequently done and is ok, provided it is done carefully, or would you recommend I train my hand to adjust to the current keys positions/angle?

I'm still a young player and my hand may not be sufficiently used to the somewhat awkward angle of the pinky table.

Experts advise are welcome as always.
 
Also ergonomics on Yamahas are widely felt to be just about as good as it's possible to get, and I think trying to alter the angle of the left pinkie keys is a job best left to an experienced tech.
 
Adjusting the pinky keys (or the bell key spatulas/table) is a very common job, but it's not without its difficulties.
What makes it tricky is that, in most cases, all the keys are linked in some way or another - so if you alter one key (say by raising or lowering it), you then have to adjust its relationship with the keys it's connected with.
Once you've done that, you then have to adjust the relationship of that second key to any others it might be connected with - and as a general rule of thumb you nearly always end up having to adjust the G# key.
If you're not careful you can end up going around in ever-decreasing circles, making everything progressively worse.

By far the most common bell key table adjustment is that of resetting the height of the low C# spatula (or touchpiece). These are usually quite exposed, and are the first things to be knocked out of line if the horn cops a whack or is handled roughly. Typically you'd see that the G#, B and Bb touchpiece are all lying more or less flat in relation to each other, while the C# touchpiece stands noticeably proud.
I say noticeably because it can sometime be advantageous to set the touchpieces at varying heights.

Anyway...you have an offline touchpiece and you want to correct it.
Logically you'd assume that you get a big pair of pliers and simply bend the touchpiece down...but this rarely works because it's not usually the touchpiece that's bent...it's the arm on which its attached.
If you bend the touchpiece you might well raise/lower it, but you'll also tilt it...and that's a whole 'nother can of worms.

So you try bending the touchpiece arm.
Trouble is, they're quite flexible...and in order to bend a piece of metal you've got to take it past its 'yeild point' (the point at which you overcome its natural resistance and it gives way). This take quite a bit of space, and you're unlikely to have enough of that while the keys are mounted on the horn.
You could use wedges, or a second tool to provide leverage/support - but then you run into the risk of bending the pillars out of line.
In other words, you really need to dismantle the keys first.

And then there's the problem with torque.
This applies, in particular, to the low B/Bb keys. If you rush in there with a pair of pliers and give the touchpieces a good ol' tweak, you're likely to find that some of the force you applied has travelled all the way down to the other end of the key and has shifted the position of the cup arm. So now you have a dirty great leak in the pad (usually at the rear).

I'm not saying this is a job you can't do - just that it's rather more complicated than it appears...and how successful you are often relies on experience (you bend a key, and from the feedback from the pliers/bending tool you kinda know just how much more force will be needed).

However, for the low C# it's often much easier to adjust the height of the touchpiece from the other end of the key. A typical modern C# key is in two parts...the long lever key (the part you press) and the much shorter key cup.
There's an arm that comes off the key cup barrel that connects with the lever key...and if you bend this arm you can alter the height of the touchpiece. It's generally a much easier job - but it still has the usual shedload of caveats....among which are that there's a risk of distorting the key barrel (so the key binds), of bending the cup arm (leaking at the back of the pad) and of moving (if fitted) the arm that holds the adjuster plate...which connects to an adjusting screw on the low B key cup arm.

All things considered, this is a job best left to a professional. It's usually inexpensive, providing the problem is simply a single bent key (it's often not...when something gets bent on a horn, other things get bent too).

Of course, there might be nothing wrong with your table keys - and if you take a peek at the review section on my site you'll find shots of hundreds of bell key tables, which ought to tell you whether or not yours is damaged.
Even so, it's entirely possible that your table is fine - but it just doesn't suit you...and rather that need fixing, it just needs tweaking.
 
I really thank you all for your very kind advices.

All things considered, this is a job best left to a professional. It's usually inexpensive, providing the problem is simply a single bent key (it's often not...when something gets bent on a horn, other things get bent too).

The least I can say is that I've been warned!

Even so, it's entirely possible that your table is fine - but it just doesn't suit you...and rather that need fixing, it just needs tweaking.

It's just me feeling that it would probably feel more confortable if the whole table was "turned up", a bit closer to my ring finger/G key. But I think that I will refrain from attempting anything just yet and keep trying to get used to it as it is. The keys were already off the horn, ready to be tweaked...

On my Yamaha tenors, I bent the palm keys slightly so the don't get in the way too easily, but maybe it my hands need bending! :p
 
You can certainly have the whole table brought up (by a few millimetres, realistically) - but that's definitely a job for a pro.
Bending palm keys by hand? No problem bending them side-to-side....but if going up or down you have to watch out for how it might affect the pad seat.
 
You can certainly have the whole table brought up (by a few millimetres, realistically) - but that's definitely a job for a pro.

The shape of the arms on the YAS-23 appears to make it quite feasible without taking too much risks, but I won't try it. For now! I'm not a pro, but I'm pretty good with mechanical stuff and I tend to always make minor changes to almost everything I touch. :rolleyes: My wife think it's a disease...

Bending palm keys by hand? No problem bending them side-to-side....but if going up or down you have to watch out for how it might affect the pad seat.

Yep, it was side by side, unmounted and ensuring that I didn't bent the key cup side of the arm!
 

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