Hello my name is Anthony, I'm joining this so that i nay gather information in regards to a new purchase i made

[Cougar]

Hello my name is Anthony, I'm joining this so that i nay gather information in regards to a new purchase i made. Hopefully I can get some history in regards to what I believe is a 1926 C.G Conn New Wonders 2 Chu Berry Alto Low pitch Saxophone

 

[jbtsax]

Go to Saxpics.com. That site created by Pete Hales gives a wealth of information about all brands of saxophones and their history.

 

[JayeNM]

Saxpics is a great source for photos. Unfortunately Saxpics also was sold to USA Horn years ago and has never been updated, so a fair amount of that information and opinion which Pete H. did a great job of collecting 15 years ago, when vintage instrument talk was just getting going on the internet...is actually out of date and more than a bit of it has, over time and with more players now involved and having done some research on their own....been updated significantly and contradicted not insignificantly.

But as a repository of images, and a starting point, still a useful site.

Anthony...welcome !
Please post some photos of your horn.
Is it in playing condition ?

 

[jbtsax]

Saxpics is a great source for photos. Unfortunately Saxpics also was sold to USA Horn years ago and has never been updated, so a fair amount of that information and opinion which Pete H. did a great job of collecting 15 years ago, when vintage instrument talk was just getting going on the internet...is actually out of date and more than a bit of it has, over time and with more players now involved and having done some research on their own....been updated significantly and contradicted not insignificantly.

But as a repository of images, and a starting point, still a useful site.

Anthony...welcome !
Please post some photos of your horn.
Is it in playing condition ?

Interesting comment. Where can one find this information that has been "updated significantly" and contradicts "not insignificantly" information found on Saxpics.com with regard to the history and serial numbers of vintage saxophones?

 

[Pete Thomas]

Interesting comment. Where can one find this information that has been "updated significantly" and contradicts "not insignificantly" information found on Saxpics.com with regard to the history and serial numbers of vintage saxophones?

All over the Internet I imagine (I've seen some in the past) , but as Jaye says saxpics is still useful.

 

[helen]

Depends what brands you're looking for. I have specialized in German brands. My Julius Keilwerth, Max Keilwerth, Hammerschmidt, Oscar Adler, B&S (both vintage and modern), Hohner, etc, etc, pages are the most complete you'll find anywhere (including German). I work together with German saxophone historian, Uwe Ladwig, to bring his work to English-speaking audiences, and then further his research by doing my own using his as a springboard.

My Vintage European horns directory page gives you a listing of the brands I've done to date. Next up: H. Couf.

Go on jbt, add my site to your favourites menu.... I know you want to.

 

[jbtsax]

Depends what brands you're looking for. I have specialized in German brands. My Julius Keilwerth, Max Keilwerth, Hammerschmidt, Oscar Adler, B&S (both vintage and modern), Hohner, etc, etc, pages are the most complete you'll find anywhere (including German). I work together with German saxophone historian, Uwe Ladwig, to bring his work to English-speaking audiences, and then further his research by doing my own using his as a springboard.

My Vintage European horns directory page gives you a listing of the brands I've done to date. Next up: H. Couf.

Go on jbt, add my site to your favourites menu.... I know you want to.

I love your site Helen, but I rarely come across any of those brands in my repair trade and have the need to do some research on them other than out of curiosity. Please don't interpret this as meaning I am a "smug American" who thinks that only American vintage saxes are important. That is not the case at all. I am fascinated by the German designs among others. You have provided a very important service to the saxophone world with all of your hard work.

 

[JayeNM]

Interesting comment. Where can one find this information that has been "updated significantly" and contradicts "not insignificantly" information found on Saxpics.com with regard to the history and serial numbers of vintage saxophones?

All over the Internet I imagine (I've seen some in the past) , but as Jaye says saxpics is still useful.

PRECISELY.

You know, JBT...understand this: Pete H did a great job over a few years polling the current users/owners at the time (online) of various makes and models, experiencing some of the horns himself, and then putting together that very interesting and useful site which AT THE TIME was unprecedented. However, it was a snapshot of what was known and collected in that given period of time...a time when vintage horn interest hadn't really 'exploded', shall we say.

Over subsequent years, as buying and selling on the 'net became more popular....more examples of many, many (many) makers were found....more information/articles/letters/records of and from the various companies (and horn owners) were found and/or researched; people became aficionados of certain models and spent time digging up info on 'em.....and ALL of this added to the "knowledge pool".
Subsequently....many things on the Saxpics site were found to be not too accurate. To give Pete credit, when his information and descriptions started veering into...extrapolation...in many instances his writing would indicate this...but just as often....not.

Also, although to this day I believe the site invites users to submit corrective information...repeated attempts by many people I know over several, several years to submit and ostensibly have the writing revised....never resulted in anything. Not even an auto-reply from the site. So the possibility of using the site as a Centralized Source/resource for ever-evolving new discoveries, confirmations, and historical info being added has also been, unfortunately, lost.

So...it is fair to say that USA Horn just kept the site in the same state as when they bought it, and uses the site as a jump-point to sell their wares. Which is too bad.

Also keep in mind that many of the impressions and opinions he collected (much from SOTW members at the time, I believe) were not necessarily on horns which were in top playing shape...and it's not a great idea to write impressions and conclusions about a model when they are not in good tack.

By all means...I have said this ad-infinitum, on many a thread over many a year: it still is a GOOD resource. Particularly Pictorially. But as far as the informational writing, accuracy at times is wanting....and needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

End of thread digression (for me).

The OP wants to know about his Chu.

 

[JayeNM]

Helen's site is one Shining Example of a Vintage Saxnut having picked up the ball and run with it.

Fantastic site, fantastic info, and she is great at responding to inquiries, accepting new information, and revising where she deems appropriate.

Depends what brands you're looking for. I have specialized in German brands. My Julius Keilwerth, Max Keilwerth, Hammerschmidt, Oscar Adler, B&S (both vintage and modern), Hohner, etc, etc, pages are the most complete you'll find anywhere (including German). I work together with German saxophone historian, Uwe Ladwig, to bring his work to English-speaking audiences, and then further his research by doing my own using his as a springboard.

My Vintage European horns directory page gives you a listing of the brands I've done to date. Next up: H. Couf.

Go on jbt, add my site to your favourites menu.... I know you want to.

 

[JayeNM]

Hello my name is Anthony, I'm joining this so that i nay gather information in regards to a new purchase i made. Hopefully I can get some history in regards to what I believe is a 1926 C.G Conn New Wonders 2 Chu Berry Alto Low pitch Saxophone

Anthony...if you are still HERE ....you have a good horn. At certain times in the up-and-down popularity aspect of the vintage horn world Chu's were considered by many to be one of the best Altos ever made. Although their market values are not what they were at the height of their desireability...one in good, serviced condition with no significant nasties is still worth around $700-1000, depending on the finish.

Nice horns, a '26 is the second year or so they were produced. They are the next model after the New Wonder I; these models have the exact same body, bow, bell, and necktube specifications, so they sound the same, blow the same. The Chu had revised keywork which some folks consider better, ergonomically...and more robust, mechanically.

Owners like to get the microtuners to be in functioning shape....many an old Microtuner has over time become frozen due equally to neglect in maintaining and very bad, bad attempts to 'unfreeze' them with improper tools. The Tuner is not a necessity, as most people know.; it doesn't effect the playability of the horn...just a cool detail. Actually, some NWI's and II's came with non-Tuner necks as well.

It was never offcially labeled the "Chu Berry".

So....a nice player, a good example of an old splitbell. A bit mouthpiece-finicky. A little 'flexible' in its intonation - but this isn't a bad thing, IMHO. But for a player used to only modern, contemporary horns...learning how it responds usually takes some woodshedding.


Also, the bow specification of New Wonders was such that something in the interior geometry gives the Altos (not Tenors) a propensity to gurgle on Low B mostly, sometimes on C and Bb as well. This doesn't show up on ALL horns.

This is also addressable. I have found that the gurgle happens because of a leak.. Oftentimes it can be a leak which is hard to find, one which is not large nor obvious. But once found and attended to, it is resolved.
Other resolutions include dropping a wine cork or mouthpiece cap down the bell. This does something to the volume of the bow which usually makes the gurgle vanish. So there are remedies.
But I don't wanna scare you - you may find the horn plays steady down there just fine. A good buddy and bandmate of mine in Portland, a pro, used his NWI for decades as his main gigging horn and he never had a gurgling issue (he also kept his horn well-serviced). He loves it so much that rather than sell/switch, he actually had me do some minor keywork mods to it which he had wanted for a while.

If you websearch "chu berry saxophone" there are a number of articles which you can find.

Whew...OK, enjoy the sax. Definitely worth putting $ into to get put into good playing shape.

 

[jbtsax]

Taking all that into account I still believe Saxpics.com to be an excellent resource to "get some history in regards to what I believe is a 1926 C.G Conn New Wonders 2 Chu Berry Alto Low pitch Saxophone" which was the original question. Not many rank and file saxophone players are into the "minutiae" that collectors and resellers are.

I am referring specifically to these pages:

Conn Instrument Models, Conn History If there is incorrect information included in these pages, corrections and citations would be welcome and appreciated.

 

[JayeNM]

You can insist upon it 3x or more if you like, and come up with rationales as to why a "non-minutiae interested" player should use Saxpics.
For me, a website riddled with inaccuracies should be noted as such..particularly when it remains active giving the impression that it invites new information when in fact, it has not for quite a while.

I would suggest you visit Conn Loyalist for Conn info...as simply one (better) example of a website which has been added to, revised, updated regularly over the years. Although lacking any visual Bling, that is the way an informational website needs to be run in today's day and age.
Dr. Derksen is an excellent resource.
Also quite contactable.

 

[JayeNM]

All of that being a very long-winded way of just saying 'nowadays there are more accurate sources'....which was the extent of my point.

 

[nigeld]

Hello my name is Anthony, I'm joining this so that i nay gather information in regards to a new purchase i made. Hopefully I can get some history in regards to what I believe is a 1926 C.G Conn New Wonders 2 Chu Berry Alto Low pitch Saxophone

Getting back to the original post.
@Cougar - what is it that you want to know about your saxophone?

 

[helen]

I love your site Helen, but I rarely come across any of those brands in my repair trade and have the need to do some research on them other than out of curiosity. Please don't interpret this as meaning I am a "smug American" who thinks that only American vintage saxes are important. That is not the case at all. I am fascinated by the German designs among others. You have provided a very important service to the saxophone world with all of your hard work.

Interesting jbtsax. I know lots of techs in the States who do come across those brands in their shops. I am thinking that perhaps it has to do with your location. Perhaps not as many European horns in your area as in some other parts of the country?

Oh, and no worries about you coming off as a "smug American". I should also mention that I love my American horns. A LOT.

My main tenor is a King Zephyr. My Committee III bari is my primary bari. Alto? 6m. I play my French/German horns a lot but when it really comes down to it, I will most often choose my vintage US horn for the job.

 

[Justin Chune]

Hi Cougar, welcome to the cafe.

 

[aldevis]

Welcome to the caffè