Miscellaneous Conn Selmer moving production to China

[Hoosierken]

I ran across this in the Guardian a few minutes ago. I don't know how many facilities they have in the US but the one in Ohio will soon be gone. Full story in, The Guardian I also found a story that they will expand operations in Indiana. Conn Selmer to close Ohio plant, expand Elkhart operations

 

[Grumps]

Well, there goes that.

 

[MarkSax]

Owned by Paulson, $4 billion rich, strong supporter and ex economic adviser of Trump and tariffs to bring 'jobs' back to the USA. Uh?!!! I'm confused.

 

[skeller047]

China has worked very hard to create a manufacturing mecca in their country. Quality and efficiency improvements, aggressively promoting their products, and frankly shady business practices (undercutting, selling at a loss, etc.) have all poured fuel on that fire.

If I were a manufacturer in the USA or Europe I would be seriously looking at outsourcing or moving to China because I could likely get higher quality at lower cost. As a consumer, it means that a large majority of the goods I buy are made there.

Case in point, I bought a 3D printer from Bambu Labs in early December. I did not buy a Prusa (more expensive and fewer features) or an Elegoo or Creality (also Chinese, and cheaper, but lower quality). Bambu have gone from zero to hero in 2-3 years. As a complete newbie to this technology, I can not imagine a more seamless experience. All the reviews I read and watched said the same thing.

Saxophone related, Eastman (also owner of Haynes and Backun as well as other istrument brands) went all in for China and moved their production there. I note again that of all the tenor saxophones I played at the NAMM show last month, the Eastman horn was far above the rest. A manufacturer who doesn’t look at quality-cost ratios will soon be out of business. I am sure that’s what is behind Conn-Selmer’s decision.

For all the teeth-gnashing and hand-twisting of both politicians and consumers, if your government and culture doesn’t actively support a good business environment, then companies will move to places that do.

I am not saying I approve of China’s policies and actions, but business is business. Business owners have to look at facts and the bottom line, not speeches or opinion polls.

 

[Grumps]

If I were a manufacturer in the USA or Europe I would be seriously looking at outsourcing or moving to China because I could likely get higher quality at lower cost.

You could also get your product shipped out the back door of the factory with another brand's name on it on it to compete with you. Welcome to China!

 

[jonf]

Of course, Conn Selmer have been making instruments in China for a long time. The Prelude range of saxes has been made in China for at least 20 years. It was only a matter of time before they moved all (or almost all) manufacture there.

 

[pablop]

Interesting, and also not that suprising. IMHO USA manufacturing has been riding on the 1970/1980 reputation of "high quality" while the corporate culture has canibalized quality in a race for "more profit" measure or success.

China does not mean less quality, they established themselves as the global manufacturing hub for most of the world's industries.
And the US has become extremely expensive to live at, which in turn makes manufacturing pricy, gotta pay the workers to live in the top heavy economy that it is nowadays.

I have not tried Eastman's saxes myself, but @skeller047 here has, and I know Bob Mintzer and Bennie Maupin did too and found no fault to them,....

 

[jonf]

Interesting, and also not that suprising. IMHO USA manufacturing has been riding on the 1970/1980 reputation of "high quality" while the corporate culture has canibalized quality in a race for "more profit" measure or success.

China does not mean less quality, they established themselves as the global manufacturing hub for most of the world's industries.
And the US has become extremely expensive to live at, which in turn makes manufacturing pricy, gotta pay the workers to live in the top heavy economy that it is nowadays.

I have not tried Eastman's saxes myself, but @skeller047 here has, and I know Bob Mintzer and Bennie Maupin did too and found no fault to them,....

I think the reputation for high quality US manufacture, at least in the case of musical instruments, ended by the 1960s. I agree with everything else you say, particularly the point about corporate culture sacrificing quality in a race for more profit.

 

[pablop]

I think the reputation for high quality US manufacture, at least in the case of musical instruments, ended by the 1960s. I agree with everything else you say, particularly the point about corporate culture sacrificing quality in a race for more profit.

hi @jonf that is an argument that can be contested if we are talking about craftsmen vs corporations, and even some corps still have their act together as far as producing good instruments in the stringed arena at least.
Brands like Jean Larrivee on acoustics, Heritage guitars, Suhr and Fender Custom Shop on electrics come to mind.
Then there are a wide range of small builders who are second to none in my opinion. Ed Schaefer from Austin, John Scott from Bluesman Vintage are two I had personal experiences with and would strongly recommend.

No horn brands come to mind past the early 70s in my book...

 

[Stephen Howard]

Many years ago at the Frankfurt Musik Messe I was shown an alto built by the guy who produced horns in the £300-700 price bracket. The alto was amazing, and I asked why he didn't make them for retail. He said we (the west) wouldn't pay the asking price for them - we just wanted the cheap stuff.
These days, though, what I see on the workbench from China has improved considerably. Naturally there's a price attached to that - but it's perhaps also the case that the Chinese have realised that if they can meet the necessary standards then the money is there. It's taken a long time to get to that point - and having had some experience with 'negotiating' with the Chinese over quality control I'm pretty sure that a lot of effort has gone into bringing production standards up.

 

[Hoosierken]

Many moons ago, General Electric started a sister motor plant in Mexico. Of course they assured the IBEW that no production would be lost at the Linton plant. Eventually though, all production moved to Mexico and the Linton plant was shuttered. I posted the story because what Paulson did reminded me so much of what GE did in Linton and Ft. Wayne Indiana which they also closed. Now GE is pretty much defunct with parts of the company sold off to other companies holding onto only the Aerospace division. GE's appliance division has been sold the Haier, a Chinese corporation but they still have manufacturing facilities in the US.

 

[Grumps]

I have not tried Eastman's saxes myself, but @skeller047 here has, and I know Bob Mintzer and Bennie Maupin did too and found no fault to them,....

I met their representative at a Symposium a year or so ago. I was most impressed with their complete honesty in regard to where their horns are made, which was refreshing given the boutiques of the past that danced around this issue. I actually liked playing their Rue St. George tenor. They had a student model as well that I found very lively.

 

[Hoosierken]

I met their representative at a Symposium a year or so ago. I was most impressed with their complete honesty in regard to where their horns are made, which was refreshing given the boutiques of the past that danced around this issue. I actually liked playing their Rue St. George tenor. They had a student model as well that I found very lively.

Are those professional models? The company says that is what they are going to concentrate on in Elkhart and even expand operations there.

 

[LostCircuits]

Ha, I posted the Yahoo-Finance link to this on the other forum and got banned because the post was deemed political

 

[turf3]

"There is absolutely no truth to the rumor that we're moving production to [Mexico, Indonesia, China} and that there'll be layoffs" = get your resume in order.

If they're breathin', they're lyin'.

 

[LostCircuits]

"There is absolutely no truth to the rumor that we're moving production to [Mexico, Indonesia, China} and that there'll be layoffs" = get your resume in order.

If they're breathin', they're lyin'.

For once I agree with you, wholeheartedly!

 

[Grumps]

Are those professional models? The company says that is what they are going to concentrate on in Elkhart and even expand operations there.

The Rue St. George is supposed to be; as is the 52nd St. (which I didn't favor). But it's been a while since I tried them, and I had no idea Eastman was going to make horns in the States.