Can anyone Identify this small part from an alto?

[paulhughes]

A slightly strange tale here. I have a Conn Selmer 'vintage' PAS380 alto, (the vintage just means it's made to look old!).

I recently needed the crook cork replaced and at the same time asked the technician to give it a long overdue service. After a few days he emailed me to ask whether I wanted a full strip down and clean which he recommended it needed. I have had the sax for a few years now and although it has had an annual check, so it was overdue so I took his advice.

Curiously enough I subsequently found the attached in two parts on the floor beneath my music stand. The metal looks as though it has come from my alto. I took it with me when I collected the sax and after he had said it was all done, I showed him and asked him if it had come from my sax. He looked at it and he said no.

I have since played it and it sounds fine, across the range. But I can't help but wonder.....

Is there anyone who can identify whether this is a saxophone part if so and where it would go? The screw adjusts the length and the other end is plastic coated.

Thanks

Paul

 

[Colin the Bear]

Looks familiar. Possibly from the G# closing mechanism or the front F.

 

[paulhughes]

Thanks Colin - I think the G# mechanism is half the length of my mystery piece and seems to be in place. Not sure where it would go for the front F though.

 

[Stephen Howard]

There are four places you typically find such pins; the aforementioned G#, the front top F (either on the lever key or the connecting lever to the palm F, the octave mech (connection to the thumb key) and the low C# (on the cup key).

Edit: You might also find it on the top F# lever key, where it connects to the cup key - though I don't recall ever seeing an adjustable pin there.

 

[paulhughes]

Very grateful Stephen, all of these are in place. In fact on my sax all are much shorter than the mystery piece.

The wife says it's probably be off the hoover!

 

[Stephen Howard]

Very grateful Stephen, all of these are in place. In fact on my sax all are much shorter than the mystery piece.

The wife says it's probably be off the hoover!

Well, it's definitely the sort of part that's found on a sax - and it's also definitely the sort of part that often falls off.
For some perspective, here's a similar feature on a Schenkelaars tenor:

If it is off your horn, there'll be a key arm with a empty slot.
However, if the horn appears to be fully functional I can't think where such a pin would come from and not affect the playability of the horn.
Maybe it was always rattling around in the case...an errant spare part.
Hang on to it though...might come in handy one day!

 

[paulhughes]

Thanks very much I shall!

 

[DavidUK]

The screw doesn't adjust the length, it secures the pin into a long slot so that it can be adjusted along such slot, as in Steve's photo. That the pin is plastic coated gives an extra clue, but not one I can find an answer for.

Do you have any other horns?

 

[paulhughes]

I do but they are both very cheap student models and not the of the same finish as the Conn Selmer. The pin is clearly designed to fit into a slot as you describe, but I cannot find an empty one on the horn.

Perhaps I should have been more trusting of the technician. An overdoes of lockdown induced cynicism maybe.

 

[Stephen Howard]

That the pin is plastic coated gives an extra clue, but not one I can find an answer for.

Not really. A pin like that is either going to sit inside a fork or is going to have an arm resting on it. In each case there will be a need for some buffering (else clanky-clank) - and when you have a round pin it makes sense to use a piece of suitable tube.

What concerns me is that the part was found in two pieces. If it had been a spare part that found its way into the case it would surely be in one piece. Clearly the screw has come out and allowed the pin to fall off something.
We've ruled out the G# - and from this photo of a 380's front top mech we can rule this one out too (it's a short pin).

That leaves the octave mech and the low C# - neither of which would work without the pin in place.
And as far as I can see the rest of the horn is bog standard.

However, following the Holmesian maxim that 'When all other possibilities have been dismissed, that which remains - no matter how improbable - must be true' I put it the OP that his wife has been secretly boning up on saxophone construction, and (for reasons we cannot even begin to contemplate) has taken to throwing superfluous horn spares on the carpet in a heinous bid to drive him insane!
Somewhere out there on the dark web will be a Tik-Tok video entitled "Hubby in a panic over fake spare part!"

 

[DavidUK]

...his wife has been what?

 

[LostCircuits]

I'd vote for the body octave mechanism.

 

[Stephen Howard]

I'd vote for the body octave mechanism.

It's a standard swivel mech...so the only place it can go is on the link between the thumb key and the mech - and I'd like to hope that the OP would have sussed that the octaves weren't working.

 

[LostCircuits]

It's a standard swivel mech...so the only place it can go is on the link between the thumb key and the mech - and I'd like to hope that the OP would have sussed that the octaves weren't working.

Yes, agreed but you can almost play without it if you just use overtones (within limits, of course). Another possibility is that this piece was part of the Klangbogen (now defunct) or a part of a reed conditioning system. Or even a clip-on microphone. I can think of a dozen possibilities where this might have come from like a music stand or a bridge adjustment for some exotic guitar.

 

[Stephen Howard]

Yes, agreed but you can almost play without it if you just use overtones (within limits, of course). Another possibility is that this piece was part of the Klangbogen (now defunct) or a part of a reed conditioning system. Or even a clip-on microphone. I can think of a dozen possibilities where this might have come from like a music stand or a bridge adjustment for some exotic guitar.

I doubt it's off a music stand...it's too weak.
Klangbogen? I suppose it's possible - it's a load of old rubbish, so why not bung an adjustable pin on it for fun..
Guitar bridge? Can't see what use it would be.
Reed conditioning system? It would have to be incredible complex.
Clip on mic? Doubtful...plastic would be king.

I'm telling ya...someone's lobbed it there to queer your pitch!

 

[paulhughes]

Not really. A pin like that is either going to sit inside a fork or is going to have an arm resting on it. In each case there will be a need for some buffering (else clanky-clank) - and when you have a round pin it makes sense to use a piece of suitable tube.

What concerns me is that the part was found in two pieces. If it had been a spare part that found its way into the case it would surely be in one piece. Clearly the screw has come out and allowed the pin to fall off something.
We've ruled out the G# - and from this photo of a 380's front top mech we can rule this one out too (it's a short pin).
View attachment 17360

That leaves the octave mech and the low C# - neither of which would work without the pin in place.
And as far as I can see the rest of the horn is bog standard.

However, following the Holmesian maxim that 'When all other possibilities have been dismissed, that which remains - no matter how improbable - must be true' I put it the OP that his wife has been secretly boning up on saxophone construction, and (for reasons we cannot even begin to contemplate) has taken to throwing superfluous horn spares on the carpet in a heinous bid to drive him insane!
Somewhere out there on the dark web will be a Tik-Tok video entitled "Hubby in a panic over fake spare part!"

Now there's a thought!

 

[Colin the Bear]

When asking the tech if it was off your saxophone perhaps a more pertinent question may have been "is anyone missing this?"
Some poor beginner may still be struggling to get a decent sound out of an instrument in spite of it being fresh back from a service.
On the hoover front, my sister asked me to look at her hoover because the handle had come off.
After removing a kilometer of sellotape it was a simple diagnosis. A missing bolt. A reasonably sized item but not a part I stocked.
Have you found a screw?
Yes.
Was it before the handle fell off?
Yes.
What did you do with it?
Threw it in the bin.
Ok. I'll order one.

 

[Pete Thomas]

someone's lobbed it there to queer your pitch!

Now there's an expression we don't hear much these days.

Gaslighting is, I think, the current term.

Queer your pitch I think meant to expose someone's grift for what it is. Or, more politely, to cast aspersions on a tradesperson's marketing hyperbole. (Full circle back Klangbogens)

 

[Stephen Howard]

Now there's an expression we don't hear much these days.

Gaslighting is, I think, the current term.

Queer your pitch I think meant to expose someones grift for what it is. Or, more politely, to cast aspersions on a tradesperson's marketing hyperbole. (Full circle back Klangbogens)

I got it from 10CC's 'Dreadlock Holiday'.

 

[Stephen Howard]

Some poor beginner may still be struggling to get a decent sound out of an instrument in spite of it being fresh back from a service.

Actually, the pertinent question in this case would be "How the f**k did the repairer turn this job out and not notice it was missing a crucial part?"
To which my answer would be "See it all the time"...