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kevgermany
ex Landrover Nut
- Messages
- 21,319
- Location
- Just north of Munich
Since I got my tenor, I've been plagued by squeaks. This short note is intended to help other non-repairers get an idea of what to look for if you're suffering from squeaks. Would be great if guys add other causes to the list that I've missed/am not aware of.
My alto doesn't squeak, but playing it really hurts my joints, especially thumb joints, cos I have to press so hard. It's going to be repadded soon.
Talking to my teacher didn't get me far, he doesn't know a lot about instruments, just how to play them. Any time I mentioned a problem, he'd look at the pads, see indentations and say get a repad. But often it's just simple adjustments. With 3 kids at school, all taking music lessons, as well as my wife's flutes and my saxes, home repairs are a necessity - I can't afford to go to the technician every time a small problem comes up. Even if though prices are fair and reasnable.
Hopefully this helps a little, even if it's only identification/diagnosis. There's a lot more in Stephen Howard's Haynes saxophone manual, highly recommended if you want to take this further and do the repairs yourself. But getting an idea of what's wrong is a big plus.
1 - Beginneritis - especially around middle G on tenor. Characterised by lack of breath support/novice player. Often compounded by one or more of the following problems.
2 - Mouthpiece/reed issues - crummy mouthpiece/reed that doesn't work too well with that mouthpiece/facing. Mouthpiece too open for a beginner to control.
3 - Lig issues - especially with heavily tapered mouthpieces (most ligs won't accept more than a 5 mm difference in mouthpiece circumference on either side of the lig), resulting in the reed not being properly held on the table.
4 - Embouchure issues where top/bottom pressure is applied, but too little side support is given
5 - Pad(s) that don't seal properly or don't close at the same time all the way round.
6 - Regulation issues where one key closes another, but they don't both close completely or at the same time.
7 - Weak springs that allow normally closed pads to open during play.
8 - Keys that require a lot of finger pressure to close them cos of poor design - or inadequate lubrication in the linkage, especially when a cork slides.
I've been through all the conditions listed above. Seeing improvements/regressions as I fixed one thing/stumbled on another. One thing that was painfully obvious is that regulation/pad adjustment problems cause many different issues, and can often (but not always) be solved by gripping the sax/keys harder. Or slamming them closed instead of a more gentle approach. Gets very painful on the joints.
Often leaks hide... You get your leak light in, take a good look - and see nothing. Sometimes cos the leak is on the hinge side and difficult to see. Other times cos you're pressing too hard on the key while you're checking.
Another mistake when checking with a leak light is to see a pad that closes completely with a bit of pressure, but not with a gentle touch. Temptation is to accept it, cos it's close enough. Bad move...
It's easy to confuse a sax leak issue with a lig/reed issue. The leak sets off the squeak, which results in the reed buzzing really fast in sympathy with the squeak. So you reckon it's the reed, tighten the lig and maybe it all goes quiet for a while.
Also a tendancy to play fast through a known squeak... Slamming the keys shut, this masks it and you think the problem was really yourself...
So what are we looking for to eliminate sax issues?
1 - Each pad must close all the way round with very light finger pressure. If you watch it close it shouldn't seal front to back or back to front, for instance. Common causes of problems here are pads the wrong thickness, tonehole chimneys that aren't level or flat. Poorly mounted pads. Poorly adjusted/bent keys.
2 - Where a key closes 2 or more pads, they must all close by the same amount at the same time. If one pad touches down before another, then there's a leak and a possible squeal.
3 - Eliminate friction - not only do the hinges need oiling, but any sliding parts (e'g' LH tabble) need to be well greased - or even better use self adhesive teflon sheet to ease the action.
4 - Make sure all springs correctly tensioned. Getting an assistant to press on keys held closed by springs can help identify problems here.
5 - Mouthpiece/lig issues. Best bet here is to try others, especially someone else's that's known to play well. But beware, an experienced player may have no problems playing somethign that you struggle with.
You can check all of this with few or no special tools. I use a strong LED strip as a leak light. Others prefer cigarette papers. Weak leak lights aren' as good.
Work down from the top of the sax (neck end), a leaky pad will only affect the notes below it played with it closed. Make sure there are no issues att he top of the sax before trying to cure a problem lower down.
what I also found is that as the leaks were eliminated, the tone improved - a lot.
My alto doesn't squeak, but playing it really hurts my joints, especially thumb joints, cos I have to press so hard. It's going to be repadded soon.
Talking to my teacher didn't get me far, he doesn't know a lot about instruments, just how to play them. Any time I mentioned a problem, he'd look at the pads, see indentations and say get a repad. But often it's just simple adjustments. With 3 kids at school, all taking music lessons, as well as my wife's flutes and my saxes, home repairs are a necessity - I can't afford to go to the technician every time a small problem comes up. Even if though prices are fair and reasnable.
Hopefully this helps a little, even if it's only identification/diagnosis. There's a lot more in Stephen Howard's Haynes saxophone manual, highly recommended if you want to take this further and do the repairs yourself. But getting an idea of what's wrong is a big plus.
1 - Beginneritis - especially around middle G on tenor. Characterised by lack of breath support/novice player. Often compounded by one or more of the following problems.
2 - Mouthpiece/reed issues - crummy mouthpiece/reed that doesn't work too well with that mouthpiece/facing. Mouthpiece too open for a beginner to control.
3 - Lig issues - especially with heavily tapered mouthpieces (most ligs won't accept more than a 5 mm difference in mouthpiece circumference on either side of the lig), resulting in the reed not being properly held on the table.
4 - Embouchure issues where top/bottom pressure is applied, but too little side support is given
5 - Pad(s) that don't seal properly or don't close at the same time all the way round.
6 - Regulation issues where one key closes another, but they don't both close completely or at the same time.
7 - Weak springs that allow normally closed pads to open during play.
8 - Keys that require a lot of finger pressure to close them cos of poor design - or inadequate lubrication in the linkage, especially when a cork slides.
I've been through all the conditions listed above. Seeing improvements/regressions as I fixed one thing/stumbled on another. One thing that was painfully obvious is that regulation/pad adjustment problems cause many different issues, and can often (but not always) be solved by gripping the sax/keys harder. Or slamming them closed instead of a more gentle approach. Gets very painful on the joints.
Often leaks hide... You get your leak light in, take a good look - and see nothing. Sometimes cos the leak is on the hinge side and difficult to see. Other times cos you're pressing too hard on the key while you're checking.
Another mistake when checking with a leak light is to see a pad that closes completely with a bit of pressure, but not with a gentle touch. Temptation is to accept it, cos it's close enough. Bad move...
It's easy to confuse a sax leak issue with a lig/reed issue. The leak sets off the squeak, which results in the reed buzzing really fast in sympathy with the squeak. So you reckon it's the reed, tighten the lig and maybe it all goes quiet for a while.
Also a tendancy to play fast through a known squeak... Slamming the keys shut, this masks it and you think the problem was really yourself...
So what are we looking for to eliminate sax issues?
1 - Each pad must close all the way round with very light finger pressure. If you watch it close it shouldn't seal front to back or back to front, for instance. Common causes of problems here are pads the wrong thickness, tonehole chimneys that aren't level or flat. Poorly mounted pads. Poorly adjusted/bent keys.
2 - Where a key closes 2 or more pads, they must all close by the same amount at the same time. If one pad touches down before another, then there's a leak and a possible squeal.
3 - Eliminate friction - not only do the hinges need oiling, but any sliding parts (e'g' LH tabble) need to be well greased - or even better use self adhesive teflon sheet to ease the action.
4 - Make sure all springs correctly tensioned. Getting an assistant to press on keys held closed by springs can help identify problems here.
5 - Mouthpiece/lig issues. Best bet here is to try others, especially someone else's that's known to play well. But beware, an experienced player may have no problems playing somethign that you struggle with.
You can check all of this with few or no special tools. I use a strong LED strip as a leak light. Others prefer cigarette papers. Weak leak lights aren' as good.
Work down from the top of the sax (neck end), a leaky pad will only affect the notes below it played with it closed. Make sure there are no issues att he top of the sax before trying to cure a problem lower down.
what I also found is that as the leaks were eliminated, the tone improved - a lot.
