Miscellaneous Off topic posts. If they get moved it isn't personal!

[Pete Thomas]

I am just referring to common sense in combination with the suggestions put forth by @Pete Thomas to keep the threads in compliance with search engines.

Or do you want to write up the rules on just how much digression is permitted? I look forward to seeing them.

Lost circuits is spot on.

There are no exact rules. Off topic posts can often be interesting and/or funn(ny). But threads going too much off topic is not a good thing for the forum re:SEO (Search Engine Optimisation) We don’t want to get dictatorial, but just ask people to kindly stick to the topic when a thread is informational rather than Chat.

In the past, we have invested in SEO consultants and do our best to comply with best practises as advised: the survival of the forum relies on it.

Google will index and give priority to good focussed content. This is not easy with forums because understandably people do add bits of humour and asides. It’s impossible to say at what point it becomes too much.

I’ve said before I believe the odd bit of off topic and humour is fine and is good for the overall character of the forum. But if it gets to where an AI algorithm sees it as clutter then the forum, or more likely that specific thread, could suffer due to being dropped from the search index.

The solutions looking from an SEO perspective is to either (a) split off the off topic sections if there is a significant amount, eg if an OT post gets 2 or more replies and so it will make a good new topic, or (b) to just mark the thread for Google to not index as it then allows its bot crawler to concentrate on the more focussed threads.

Please don't be offended if we move your off topic posts either to a new thread or an existing one.

 

[mizmar]

Just out if idle curiosity.
The search engines crawler bots go through threads and a thread is a number of posts gathered together from a database? No?
And the site knows when a thread is being crawled rather then read by a human?

If so, wouldn't it be possible to have a per post tag, maybe located near the share/bookmark icons, to mark a post as off topic and the site could ignore those when serving a bot?
The flag could be set by the poster or admin - when considering splitting a thread - so far as many off topic posts don't really warrant a thread of their own.

 

[Pete Thomas]

If so, wouldn't it be possible to have a per post tag, maybe located near the share/bookmark icons, to mark a post as off topic and the site could ignore those when serving a bot?

No. An entire thread is crawled and indexed I haven't looked into it enough to know if each separate page (20 posts) of a thread are indexed as such.

No, sadly it is not possible to mark individual posts or sections of posts as noindex. If it was I'd be doing it rather than being the annoying site admin spoilsport who has to try and keep thing search engine friendly and focussed.

I view it as a balancing act. I personally like a lot of the off topic asides, but at the same time I understand how that stuff totally goes against what is good for getting a page indexed and (more crucially) retrieved from the index based on search terms and showing high up in the search results.

Google is aware of forums naturally, and it's possible it cuts them a bit of slack when looking at a post vs an article due to the UGC aspect (User Generated Content). But SEO is a very unknown quantity and Google is quite secretive about the inner workings. basically because it wants to show useful

It wants to show organically good information as opposed to cleverly manipulated by SEOs like in the old day when people first discovered the more keywords they put in the higher it got in the search results (keyword stuffing). That now gets penalised especially when the keywords are used unnaturally or masked.

 

[Targa]

Somehow I expect we can rely on her to realize that digressions into Uileann pipes, tea, and the like are mildly amusing diversions. Or do you want to write up the rules on just how much digression is permitted? I look forward to seeing them.

If you wander off topic too often @Jeanette will put them in a thread of your own.
Cafe equivalent of the (very) naughty step.

 

[Pete Thomas]

If you wander off topic too often @Jeanette will put them in a thread of your own.
Cafe equivalent of the (very) naughty step

No it’s more likely to be me and it’s nothing to do with naughty step or punishment, it’s just normal part of curating in order to help with SEO and the continued survival of the Café as a viable going concern.

That said I’ll move this to the appropriate place to discuss it which obviously not in a thread about a 1926 Truetone.

 

[LostCircuits]

Like you said @Pete Thomas, it is easy to meander off, and within limits, that's all perfectly fine. I am myself very guilty of throwing in redirects and hijacks, often in response to some very specific comment earlier but, especially after all the discussion about SEOs and staying on topic, I am always trying to behave. Unless I eat too many oats.

 

[Ivan]

...the annoying site admin spoilsport...

Your next admin title

(It's annoyingly long)

 

[LostCircuits]

Leave out the "admin" it's redundant and then you have a really catchy acronym!
(spoiler, it rhymes with monkey)

 

[Pete Thomas]

(spoiler, it rhymes with monkey)

You could have used an actual spoiler

SPOILER: the annoying site spoilsport acronym. ➠

ASS

The problem we face is that it's natural (especially as a topic wears on), that people start going off topic. And often it can be interesting and / amusing in its own right.

But as mentioned above it can actually be very bad for SEO and ultimately that means the forum's existence (if we get penalised or just drop off of Google).

However we don't want to be the Annoying Site Spoilsport - it's a tricky thing, bit of a double edged sword. We do move off topic stuff if it grows into something that warrants being a new thread - so we move those posts. But then (as above re: Targa's naughty step comment) people see it as if its some kind of punishment for bad behaviour.

We could argue that at least the off topic banter keeps a thread going and in view in the new list - there is that advantage. But ultimately I think Google deciding to not index or to give low priority is the bigger issue.

We have also lost good members because they didn't like others posting off topic stuff in what they view as "their" thread.

I don't know how to solve this.

 

[Woodpad]

Any idea how Google algorithms will react to banter spiced with key words from the threads subject?

 

[Targa]

But then (as above re: Targa's naughty step comment) people see it as if its some kind of punishment for bad behaviour.

Sorry, Pete, that was meant a humorous reference to my accomplice and I frequently going off topic a few years back and Jeanette setting up the subsequent thread.
Never thought of it as punishment for bad behaviour only most of our ramblings being kept together.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Sorry, Pete, that was meant a humorous reference to my accomplice and I frequently going off topic a few years back and Jeanette setting up the subsequent thread.
Never thought of it as punishment for bad behaviour only most of our ramblings being kept together.

Yes Iget that but notwithstanding I've noticed that some people do get a bit huffy when you move, delete, edit or rename their posts. I just wanted to make it clear we do it with the bestow intention and for a good reason, as in the thread here:

Cafe Announcements 📣 - Clarifying your rights on the forum: Why we might edit/delete/move posts

Content policy By uploading or submitting any materials to us, you automatically: grant us the non-exclusive right to retain or delete any of your own work that you post on Cafésaxophone (e.g. text, music, images, video etc.). We also have the right to republish or quote that content on our...

cafesaxophone.com

 

[MikeMorrell]

Hi Pete, I think I understand your question (and the reponses). SEO for the cafe is important. I just wonder how the the Google Analytics for the cafe (as a result of SEO) stack up against those of TTS (as a result of SEO). Especially w.r.t. 'referrals' to the cafe from TTS and elsewhere.

IMHO (without any analysis), the vast majority of posts and replies are sax-related. The OT posts and replies make the (wonderful!) cafe's 'community culture' what it is. And IMHO one of the reasons that many members join and remain. So personally (for the cafe culture), I would be disappointed if the sometimes OT posts/responses were to become more restricted due to a greater focus on SEO.

Which brings me to the question: what is the purpose of drawing more visitors (via SEO) directly to the cafe? I can imagine that the more visitors the cafe has, the more that might opt for a paid membership. But I can also imagine other ways of 'raising money' to support the cafe.

In short, increasing SEO (directly) to the cafe is (to me) a 'tactic'. But for me, the 'goal' (and possible other tactics) remain unclear.

 

[mizmar]

No, sadly it is not possible to mark individual posts

... Even if add-on people can't; I'm a little surprised that the Xenfono developers can't do something.

 

[Pete Thomas]

But for me, the 'goal' (and possible other tactics) remain unclear.

There is no specific goal as in the amount of revenue is needed. Cafe does ok in long tail searches (searches that are less generic) TTS seems to do OK for more generic searches such as how to start out on saxophone.

I suppose though the goal right now is to survive the changing face of the internet with competition from social media, AI information, not to mention the dumbing down of information by the desire to get it from a buffoon of an influencer on YouTube (did I just say that?) as opposed to reading words and putting them into practise.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I noticed a certain Mr Lucky asked about this in 2022 without success...

Your link doesn’t work.

I'm a little surprised that the Xenfono developers can't do something.

It’s nothing to do with xenForo, it’s the way Google works. It won’t noindex part of a page. If there was a straightforward html tag that worked for this then it’s nothing xenForo would need to implement as any html tags are already possible via xenForo using custom bbcode. So there really is no simple solution.

 

[mizmar]

Your link doesn’t

Fixed

Very simple SEO addon

I'm interested in an SEO addon which(unlike the existing ones) is very very simple and just allows for : Individual custom thread meta descriptions/title Individual custom thread noindex (with exclusion from sitemap) External relations = canonical (ideally) Ideally Individual post Google...

xenforo.com

It won’t noindex part of a page.

Sure.
But are Threads stored as big old pages of 20 post in a lump in a database or as a thread ID + title etc. with a number of posts associated with that ID; and the Thread pages composed on demand? I have no idea from searching XenForo.
But I'm pretty sure the former isn't the case.

 

[Pete Thomas]

or as a thread ID + title etc. with a number of posts associated with that ID;

It's more like that. But has no bearing on the final html render or how Google sees it.

EDIT: and once you start trying to show different stuff to Google vs what people see that's a very quick way to get penalised by Google for masking whatever. It's called black hat SEO and not a good idea. It's a system you cannot game and the reason is they want good content not clever SEO. Makes sense.

 

[mizmar]

Fair enough.

As another angle - more within scope for a site manager; would it be possible to only serve one page (first 20 posts) to the search engine?

 

[Pete Thomas]

would it be possible to only serve one page (first 20 posts) to the search engine?

I'm sure it's possible with various bits of code and a good (possibly very expensive) developer. But it starts to make things complicated and I can't see what the advantages of doing that are. I would have thought could have adverse effects.