Beginner Jumping Octaves

[Veggie Dave]

It's funny how quickly any ego, arrogance or simple confidence you may have allowed to grow because you're finding something easier to do than you first expected can be so easily destroyed by the simplest of things.

Before tackling the classic and iconic Will You, from Breaking Glass, I thought I'd try something rather easier from the same album first ... and Who Needs It seemed the perfect choice.

Who knew something so simple as playing a staccato low E to middle E, a musical challenge that's so hard on a stringed instrument that anyone can do it even if they've never played a note before, would be something I'd find nigh on impossible to do on a sax.

Playing a low E isn't a problem. I haven't quite got the attack I'd like when tonguing it, but it's fairly consistent - until I drop down from that middle E to it. Suddenly I can no longer play a low E; I can play a middle E with low frequency overtones, but a pure low E? Nope.

I've tried relaxing, different mouth shapes, different tongue shapes, standing differently. The only thing that seems to work is losing any attack, so it must be something to do with the tonguing, except I don't think it is. I think my mouth muscles are constricting the reed, I'm too tense as I drop from the higher note to the low one ... but can I fix it?

Can I hell...

Having something so simple be so frustratingly difficult to do is a little, well, frustrating.

 

[Nick Wyver]

It is, isn't it?

Normal.

Keep at it.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Take a break and don't sweat it. Sometimes repeating something wrong embeds it.

Having said that give the instrument the once over to make sure everything is doing what it should and give it a clean. Clean out the mouthpiece too.

Maybe reset the reed 0.1mm further back.

Are you soaking your reed before playing?

 

[jbtsax]

You might try this:

Tongue low E repeatedly staccato and then add the thumb octave while still "mentally" tonguing low E. Keep the same air, embouchure, and throat as you add the octave key. It may help to think "tah" as you tongue rather than "tee" which will help to keep the back of the tongue down.

One of the fundamentals to good saxophone playing is to keep the same embouchure throughout the regular range of the instrument avoiding tightening for the high register and loosening for the low. That in itself will create lots of problems.

A different approach would be to not even use the octave key and tongue the low E's "tah" and the high E's "tee". Even with this method it is important to keep the embouchure and air the same in both octaves.

 

[Veggie Dave]

Ooh, some excellent advice. Thank you, merci, gracias!

I'm about to have an exciting hour or so doing nothing but tonguing low and mid Es but something did just dawn on me.

I've found that your lips get dry from playing the sax - or mine do, anyway - so I've occasionally used moisturiser on them and I'm wondering if I may have somehow contaminated my reed?

 

[Justin Chune]

Playing across wide intervals is not simple and requires much practice. Keep at it.

Jim.

 

[Pauly]

I'm pretty sure that lip balm on your reed isn't going to cause this. It is genuinely difficult to suddenly drop down the octave. What's slightly confusing is that you say you can do it legato but not staccato - usually it's the other way round that there's a problem.

jbtsax is right to suggest that you concentrate on the lower octave as the upper octave will generally take care of itself in situations like this. Try to keep nice and relaxed and don't be too aggressive with the articulation at first.

 

[Taz]

Rome wasn't built in a day, and by all accounts, you've only just got the scaffolding up! Take it easy and don't try to run before you can walk (How many more metaphors can I get in this post? )
Plenty of long tones will help to strengthen your embouchure.

 

[Veggie Dave]

Taz, the scaffolding is still on the back of the van. I haven't even finished the risk assessment yet!

Okay, I spent an hour or so practising my tonguing and in particular the jumping between octaves, which has helped massively. I'm still no where near anything that could be described as consistent, but I have worked out what I think are the three main problems.

Firstly, the initial rush of breath is too violent - tahing too aggressively. Although this is only occasionally the main problem.

Secondly, being too tense. Simply putting too much pressure on the reed with my lip. This becomes increasingly problematic the longer I practise.

Thirdly, tongue position in the mouth. I'm not sure how to describe this but if I make sure the rear of my tongue isn't raised, the air therefore has a high flow rate rather than high pressure because the tongue is higher in the mouth, which helps stop me over powering the reed.

At least I think so...

I hope my witterings may help others, too, rather than just boring them to death.

 

[Colin the Bear]

The low notes come from your toes. The high ones down your nose.