kevgermany
ex Landrover Nut
- Messages
- 21,369
- Locality
- Just north of Munich
I've been learning for quite a few years now, decided earlier this year it was time to do something useful instead of just going to lessons and practicing at home. A colleague plays alto in a local orchestra and they were looking for a tenor (both cover the French Horn parts), so it was arranged.
It's been a very good experience, we had a concert last night which went really well, and was my first concert at this sort of level. So highly recommended.
I thought I'd share some of the challenges I had...
Tuning - this lot tune to A=443, so the mouthpiece wouldn't go on far enough at first. Then I had to adjust my playing to keep all the notes in tune at the higher pitch - and play in tune with the rest of them.
Timing/Counting - This was the hardest part. Pace varied from faster than I'd ever played, to so slow I could easily play 4 notes per beat without breaking into a sweat. Unlike more modern music where there's always a drum or bass to keep the beat, for many bars there was nothing. You have to watch the conductor and count every bar. Great when the conducting is metronome like, but real conductors aren't like this, so when in the middle of a slow bar someone's struggling with a tricky bit and the conductor starts conducting the notes (good move), someone like me counting loses it... Coming in on time in fast pieces is surprisingly easy. There's a strong rhythm to lock into. But in a slow piece where the rhythm is more like being rocked by the waves finding the right spot is often really tricky. Feel it said my wife, yes, but....
Speed. I've learnt a lot more respect for classical musicians. First time I've had to play at over 200bpm and it didn't come easy. When I had to read the part, play and watch the conductor, my brain became overloaded and I struggled a lot here. It's where arpeggio practice in all keys really helps, as does much repeated practice, starting slow and gradually building up speed. Eventually I worked out that if I practiced about 15% faster than we were playing in orchestra I had enough control to be able to relax, follow the conductor and read it. The counter part of this is playing very slowly, but accurately. And moving from a piece at over 200bpm, pretty much straight into soemthing at 30-40 bpm means the tendency is to cut notes short, wrecking the mood. Yes you need to feel it, but it also gives you a chance to really form notes. Think long tones...
Playing without notes - some guys might manage it, but not me. I can barely remember the bar I'm reading, let alone a whole piece. Net result is that sight reading skills are very important and this includes locking into the key, reading the accidentals - and not mixing up sharps and natural accidentals, something that's becoming a problem as my eyes deteriorate. Another issue here is reading ahead without losing your place. Nothing worse than getting into a repeated pattern which changes in the first bar of the next line of music.
Complexity - When I listen to music, modern stuff is relatively simple - few parts, lots of simple repetitions. Short melodies. Classical is a lot more complex. And playing like that really makes you aware of the differences and ability of the classical composers. But the complexity means there's more going on, more to listen to and you need to learn to filter out all the voices that aren't important to what you're playing or about to play.
Volume - Well most of us start off playing loud. It's what saxes are for, isn't it. OK, so after a while you learn to control the volume, play quieter, but usually as part of a passage. I had to come in on time at PP level, with notes all over the scale. This really exposes shortcomings in your technique. Not sure how many others do it, but I was relying in the reed to kick in and make the note sound. Can get away with it in modern stuff to some extent (and I was...) but for classical stuff, the note must be there at the right volume instantly. Not the place for subtoning, either. On the positive side, at FF I could make as much noise as the trumpet.
So what do you need?
Concentration. Not be distracted by the audience moving around, kids playing...
A really controllable mouthpiece (PPT, despite the big tip on mine fits the bill perfectly). Needs to have power, and the ability to go from a smooth horn type classical sound, to the low brass rasping sound in a tuba. Also be able to play really quietly - i.e. whisper level on tenor. Well fitting, reliable lig as well. You don't want that reed moving as you play.
Well played in reeds - not just one, but a reed case full. You need the reeds well soaked before you play so they don't go off as you play. But you need to be able to compensate as they change while you play.Nothing worse than coming in alone and squeaking loudly cos you're not in control - or having a solo to play and blowing it because the reed is a touch soft.
A comfortable leak free sax - nothing destroys quiet playing more than a leaky sax. You can't blow through sax problems at PP. But you need to be able to play comfortably for a few hours - that means pads that seal with light finger pressure. And learning not to grip too tight.
Well developed embouchure - your embouchure needs to be well developed and in training. No biting, sore parts in your mouth. Automatic control over it for hitting the notes precisely. Ability to play reeds in varying states of stiffness over the range of the sax.
Staying power - you can end up playing for a few hours pretty much continuously.
Ability to enjoy yourself under pressure. Nothing worse than being told, even nicely, by the conductor that you're not doing what he/she needs, and then having to solo it in front of the orchestra until you get it right. Mind you it happened to all of us. and having someone conducting who expects a lot makes the praise you get for getting it right even more worthwhile.
Ability to play the boring lines well - there are parts of the scores where you have a single note to play/hold for many bars. In one piece I had 9 bars of a single G# for instance. Just counted and listened to the melodies I was supporting.
Will to improve. Nothing pushes you more than playing with people better than you and playing out of your current comfort zone. Takes a lot of commitment and effort to pick up and play at a new level. But... Feels great aftwerwards.
Ability to criticise yourself constructively. Too many of us develop a bad habit with self criticism - we allow it to pull us down instead of using it as a tool for guiding practice/improvement.
It's been a very good experience, we had a concert last night which went really well, and was my first concert at this sort of level. So highly recommended.
I thought I'd share some of the challenges I had...
Tuning - this lot tune to A=443, so the mouthpiece wouldn't go on far enough at first. Then I had to adjust my playing to keep all the notes in tune at the higher pitch - and play in tune with the rest of them.
Timing/Counting - This was the hardest part. Pace varied from faster than I'd ever played, to so slow I could easily play 4 notes per beat without breaking into a sweat. Unlike more modern music where there's always a drum or bass to keep the beat, for many bars there was nothing. You have to watch the conductor and count every bar. Great when the conducting is metronome like, but real conductors aren't like this, so when in the middle of a slow bar someone's struggling with a tricky bit and the conductor starts conducting the notes (good move), someone like me counting loses it... Coming in on time in fast pieces is surprisingly easy. There's a strong rhythm to lock into. But in a slow piece where the rhythm is more like being rocked by the waves finding the right spot is often really tricky. Feel it said my wife, yes, but....
Speed. I've learnt a lot more respect for classical musicians. First time I've had to play at over 200bpm and it didn't come easy. When I had to read the part, play and watch the conductor, my brain became overloaded and I struggled a lot here. It's where arpeggio practice in all keys really helps, as does much repeated practice, starting slow and gradually building up speed. Eventually I worked out that if I practiced about 15% faster than we were playing in orchestra I had enough control to be able to relax, follow the conductor and read it. The counter part of this is playing very slowly, but accurately. And moving from a piece at over 200bpm, pretty much straight into soemthing at 30-40 bpm means the tendency is to cut notes short, wrecking the mood. Yes you need to feel it, but it also gives you a chance to really form notes. Think long tones...
Playing without notes - some guys might manage it, but not me. I can barely remember the bar I'm reading, let alone a whole piece. Net result is that sight reading skills are very important and this includes locking into the key, reading the accidentals - and not mixing up sharps and natural accidentals, something that's becoming a problem as my eyes deteriorate. Another issue here is reading ahead without losing your place. Nothing worse than getting into a repeated pattern which changes in the first bar of the next line of music.
Complexity - When I listen to music, modern stuff is relatively simple - few parts, lots of simple repetitions. Short melodies. Classical is a lot more complex. And playing like that really makes you aware of the differences and ability of the classical composers. But the complexity means there's more going on, more to listen to and you need to learn to filter out all the voices that aren't important to what you're playing or about to play.
Volume - Well most of us start off playing loud. It's what saxes are for, isn't it. OK, so after a while you learn to control the volume, play quieter, but usually as part of a passage. I had to come in on time at PP level, with notes all over the scale. This really exposes shortcomings in your technique. Not sure how many others do it, but I was relying in the reed to kick in and make the note sound. Can get away with it in modern stuff to some extent (and I was...) but for classical stuff, the note must be there at the right volume instantly. Not the place for subtoning, either. On the positive side, at FF I could make as much noise as the trumpet.
So what do you need?
Concentration. Not be distracted by the audience moving around, kids playing...
A really controllable mouthpiece (PPT, despite the big tip on mine fits the bill perfectly). Needs to have power, and the ability to go from a smooth horn type classical sound, to the low brass rasping sound in a tuba. Also be able to play really quietly - i.e. whisper level on tenor. Well fitting, reliable lig as well. You don't want that reed moving as you play.
Well played in reeds - not just one, but a reed case full. You need the reeds well soaked before you play so they don't go off as you play. But you need to be able to compensate as they change while you play.Nothing worse than coming in alone and squeaking loudly cos you're not in control - or having a solo to play and blowing it because the reed is a touch soft.
A comfortable leak free sax - nothing destroys quiet playing more than a leaky sax. You can't blow through sax problems at PP. But you need to be able to play comfortably for a few hours - that means pads that seal with light finger pressure. And learning not to grip too tight.
Well developed embouchure - your embouchure needs to be well developed and in training. No biting, sore parts in your mouth. Automatic control over it for hitting the notes precisely. Ability to play reeds in varying states of stiffness over the range of the sax.
Staying power - you can end up playing for a few hours pretty much continuously.
Ability to enjoy yourself under pressure. Nothing worse than being told, even nicely, by the conductor that you're not doing what he/she needs, and then having to solo it in front of the orchestra until you get it right. Mind you it happened to all of us. and having someone conducting who expects a lot makes the praise you get for getting it right even more worthwhile.
Ability to play the boring lines well - there are parts of the scores where you have a single note to play/hold for many bars. In one piece I had 9 bars of a single G# for instance. Just counted and listened to the melodies I was supporting.
Will to improve. Nothing pushes you more than playing with people better than you and playing out of your current comfort zone. Takes a lot of commitment and effort to pick up and play at a new level. But... Feels great aftwerwards.
Ability to criticise yourself constructively. Too many of us develop a bad habit with self criticism - we allow it to pull us down instead of using it as a tool for guiding practice/improvement.
Last edited:
