Jazz minor scale

[jlcaton]

Does anyone have any suggestions as to where (chords, chord progressions...) I could fit the jazz minor scale into my solos .

Jazz minor rooted in C
C-D-Eb-F-G-A-B-C

 

[Pete Thomas]

I'm not sure where you got the name "jazz minor scale" from in this context.

This is a melodic minor scale. I don't know of a "jazz minor scale" as there are several types of minor scale used in jazz.

The melodic minor you mention fits nicely on tonic minor chords. It can also be used if you apply a modal approach, ie the same notes but with a different root. This can get quite complex, it's a very big topic, so I'd suggest a good long look at Barry Levine's excellent book on jazz theory as well as what other folks here have to say.

 

[jlcaton]

Thanks, you got on that fast. I called it jazz minor because I've seen it referred to as that in a couple jazz books. Unfortunately those books didn't do a good job of providing instances in which to use the scales. By the way, I really appreciate all of the information on your site, I wish I would have found it a couple years ago when I first started digging into jazz.

 

[Pete Thomas]

An interesting thing is that if you take the 7th degree of this scale and make it the root, you get what is often called the alterted scale.

However I prefer not to use this kind of thinking now as in the end it gets confusing, better to learn the different scales from their own root rather than pretending they are "modes" of other scales

 

[popnam]

I try to post some tips. You've written C-D-Eb-F-G-A-B-C and that's a
C melodic minor If you look at it tones we can think about this scale, like a

Cmmaj7/6/9/11 chord Beacouse C is root, D is nineth, Eb is minor third, F is fourth ( or eleventh ) G is fifth, A is major sixth, B is major seventh tone of the C minor chord.

If you play the same tones from the D note, you get:

Dm7/6/b9/11 chord. Beacouse you can think like above: D root, Eb flat nineth,
F minor third, G fourth ( or eleventh ), A fifth, B major Sixth, C minor seventh.

Now we go from Eb, we get a
Ebmaj7#5/6/9/#11 chord, for the same reason.

Now from F it's an:
F7/6/9/#11

From G:
G7#5/9/11

From A:
Am7b5/b6/9/11

From B:
B7b5/b6/b9

(I hope I got it right ) So you can use them over simple chords like this: Over a minor chord 4 example: We got the first scale, and the second. The secon one has flat nineth extension, which does not sound very nice over a minor chord ( It's just my humble opinion 🙂 ) So I would rather use the first scale. For a major chord I use the third scale. For over a half diminished, I use the sixth, and the "seventh" For over a dominant seventh I would use the fourth, the fifth, and the "seventh" scale, I've written.

For ex. Over a Dbmaj7 The third scale's structure is: whole step(Eb) - whole step(F) - whole step(G) - whole step(A) - whole step(B) - half step(C) - wole step(D) - half step(Eb). From Db root it goes: Db Eb F G A Bb C Db etc.

Seventh scale is a special It's used commonly over a dominant seventh. ( As written B C D Eb F G A B would be go over a B7 chord )
I'ts because it has all the alteration of the chord. ( B: the root, C: flat nineth, D: sharp nineth, Eb: major third, F: flat fifth, G: sharp fifth, and A: minor seventh. )

I hope I could help a bit, and It's understandable. ( My english is really poor! ) and you have some useful information from this.

 

[tootsweetz]

JLCaton wrote:
Does anyone have any suggestions as to where (chords, chord progressions...) I could fit the jazz minor scale into my solos .

Jazz minor rooted in C
C-D-Eb-F-G-A-B-C

It is a complicated theory for a forum post but try playing your C "jazz minor scale" Which is the ascending half of the melodic minor scale, over an F7 chord. The Eb will be your dominant or lowered 7 and the B natural will be a #11 (raised 4th). If you were to start on the F and play the C melodic minor scale, you would actually be playing an F Lydian dominant scale which if played musically would be quite hip. I hope you are now thoroughly confused.

Now according to Jamey Aebersold. The "jazz minor scale" would actually be the Dorian mode. I think it is safe to say that the minor scale most used in jazz is the Dorian mode. The Dorian minor is the second mode/scale of Major scale family. If you don't know what that means, well that is a lesson that should have preceded this one. Go to jazzbooks.com and request a free theory handout which can explain all of this. Good Luck!

 

[jlcaton]

popnam wrote:
I try to post some tips. You've written C-D-Eb-F-G-A-B-C and that's a
C melodic minor If you look at it tones we can think about this scale, like a

Cmmaj7/6/9/11 chord Beacouse C is root, D is nineth, Eb is minor third, F is fourth ( or eleventh ) G is fifth, A is major sixth, B is major seventh tone of the C minor chord.

If you play the same tones from the D note, you get:

Dm7/6/b9/11 chord. Beacouse you can think like above: D root, Eb flat nineth,
F minor third, G fourth ( or eleventh ), A fifth, B major Sixth, C minor seventh.

Now we go from Eb, we get a
Ebmaj7#5/6/9/#11 chord, for the same reason.

Now from F it's an:
F7/6/9/#11

From G:
G7#5/9/11

From A:
Am7b5/b6/9/11

From B:
B7b5/b6/b9

(I hope I got it right ) So you can use them over simple chords like this: Over a minor chord 4 example: We got the first scale, and the second. The secon one has flat nineth extension, which does not sound very nice over a minor chord ( It's just my humble opinion 🙂 ) So I would rather use the first scale. For a major chord I use the third scale. For over a half diminished, I use the sixth, and the "seventh" For over a dominant seventh I would use the fourth, the fifth, and the "seventh" scale, I've written.

For ex. Over a Dbmaj7 The third scale's structure is: whole step(Eb) - whole step(F) - whole step(G) - whole step(A) - whole step(B) - half step(C) - wole step(D) - half step(Eb). From Db root it goes: Db Eb F G A Bb C Db etc.

Seventh scale is a special It's used commonly over a dominant seventh. ( As written B C D Eb F G A B would be go over a B7 chord )
I'ts because it has all the alteration of the chord. ( B: the root, C: flat nineth, D: sharp nineth, Eb: major third, F: flat fifth, G: sharp fifth, and A: minor seventh. )

I hope I could help a bit, and It's understandable. ( My english is really poor! ) and you have some useful information from this.

thanks for the incite

 

[jlcaton]

tootsweetz wrote:

JLCaton wrote:
Does anyone have any suggestions as to where (chords, chord progressions...) I could fit the jazz minor scale into my solos .

Jazz minor rooted in C
C-D-Eb-F-G-A-B-C

It is a complicated theory for a forum post but try playing your C "jazz minor scale" Which is the ascending half of the melodic minor scale, over an F7 chord. The Eb will be your dominant or lowered 7 and the B natural will be a #11 (raised 4th). If you were to start on the F and play the C melodic minor scale, you would actually be playing an F Lydian dominant scale which if played musically would be quite hip. I hope you are now thoroughly confused.

Now according to Jamey Aebersold. The "jazz minor scale" would actually be the Dorian mode. I think it is safe to say that the minor scale most used in jazz is the Dorian mode. The Dorian minor is the second mode/scale of Major scale family. If you don't know what that means, well that is a lesson that should have preceded this one. Go to jazzbooks.com and request a free theory handout which can explain all of this. Good Luck!

I'm well aware of dorian and the other modes. Could not remember if I wanted to say the harmonic or the melodic minor, and I knew that a book referred to it as the "jazz minor" maybe its an American thing. Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

[ammo]

Interesting - I hope language is not getting obstructed by the the universal language!
The scale described is actually only half of the melodic minor scale - the ascending half. WHWWWWH (TSTTTTS) C D Eb F G A B C.
Descending is WWHWWHW (TTSTTST) C Bb Ab G F Eb D C.
A Dorian scale would have a bVII. WHWWWHW (TSTTTST) C D Eb F G A Bb C.
Trying splitting in in half. Lower tetrachord is minor, upper tetrachord is major.
Ascending C melodic minor goes with chords based on these steps -
VII half diminished (Bm7b5) go to -III
VI half diminished (Am7b5) go to II
Vaug7 (G7aug5) go to I
IV13 (F7add13) modulation point
-IIIaug11 (EbMaj7+11) go to VI
IIm7 (Dm7) go to V
Im(Ma7) but your melody will be stuck going up forever!

...but if you just stick one one scale, your tune is not going to be very interesting!

Cheers
Ammo

 

[rebecca]

as an american, i must say, i'm not familiar with the term 'jazz minor scale'

i also have to mention-i got to attend a workshop conducted by jamey aebersold-what a neat guy. he had a chromatic pitch pipe with him that he couldn't put down, kept playing it through the whole thing and kept recommending that everyone buy one to keep in the car. use it to practice relative pitch on the commute to work.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Ammo wrote:
Interesting - I hope language is not getting obstructed by the the universal language!
The scale described is actually only half of the melodic minor scale - the ascending half. WHWWWWH (TSTTTTS) C D Eb F G A B C.
Descending is WWHWWHW (TTSTTST) C Bb Ab G F Eb D C.

You're right of course, but I've never heard of the melodic minor being used in its strict form af ascending/descending in jazz.

Usually it's just the ascending form that is used, whether its ascending, descending or (preferably) used as a basis for making up some melodic content.

The descending form no mre or less than just an Aeolian moide.

 

[funkymonk]

I might be being stupid but I thought that in jazz the melodic and natural scales etc are used in their own rights. Well anyway that way it says at http://www.jazclass.aust.com/scales/scamelm.htm. please correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm new to jazz theory

 

[bubbie_king]

The jazz minor scale is also known as the Melodic Minor Ascending scale.