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Saxophones Jay Metcalf's (Conn-Selmer) BetterSax Alto (and now Tenor too)

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Has anyone tried Jay Metcalf's BetterSax horns? Do they live up to the hype? Or is it another case of paying a few names in the sax world to endorse them when they are really just "okay"?
 
I don't think he's the sort of guy to 100% sell out for money, whether a small % is tempting - who knows. The other signs are good though, with Jody Espina (Jody Jazz) giving it his stamp of approval and Jim Cheek from sax.co.uk - "I think I preferred the sound to my silver mk6".

You may have read this already. That's from the player's side anyway. Quite what Steve Howard might say about the build quality I don't know - worth checking his page to see if he's had one in his workshop.

It's not as if it's a very low price horn, pitched in amongst Jupiters and above the lower priced T James and Eastman's.

For me, there are two important things - playability (to my liking) and a build quality sufficient to not cause regular problems. Whether or not it's quick to tarnish doesn't bother me much as all horns will eventually.

What do you think of his video on it?
 
I don't think he's the sort of guy to 100% sell out for money, whether a small % is tempting - who knows. The other signs are good though, with Jody Espina (Jody Jazz) giving it his stamp of approval and Jim Cheek from sax.co.uk - "I think I preferred the sound to my silver mk6".

You may have read this already. That's from the player's side anyway. Quite what Steve Howard might say about the build quality I don't know - worth checking his page to see if he's had one in his workshop.

It's not as if it's a very low price horn, pitched in amongst Jupiters and above the lower priced T James and Eastman's.

For me, there are two important things - playability (to my liking) and a build quality sufficient to not cause regular problems. Whether or not it's quick to tarnish doesn't bother me much as all horns will eventually.

What do you think of his video on it?

Thanks for the detailed reply. What with Chad LB and Jay Metcalf both bringing out a range of horns, I can't help but feel it's just a way for popular online coaches to try to further monetise their brands, where there isn't necessarily really a need. Having said that, if it genuinely offers exceptional value for money (i.e. a significantly better than student horn at a close to student horn price) then, whether it's just about being a money-spinner or not, it's worth a look. I'm nervous about relying purely on reviews from those who might be in the clique so to speak. Hence the desire for some real world users reviews. A review from Steven Howard would indeed be gold dust. I can't see anything from him as yet. Maybe that's a good sign that BetterSax horns aren't going in for repairs or tuneups very often, but they've not been out that long so hopefully they wouldn't anyway. The videos I've seen were enough to pique my interest (evidently) but I just want to know if it was all sales hype or based in reality. I'm with you on what's important for me; playability (particularly including ergonomics and intonation), build quality/robustness, oh and tone (I can't define it but I know what I like the sound of when I play it).
 
P.S. I've seen it said that Jay has mentioned that they are no longer working in partnership with Conn-Selmer to produce the horns. I haven't yet been able to verify this myself. Sax.co.uk still advertise them as Conn-Selmer sourced.
 
From a musician’s perspective, my perplexity remains. Why should we need yet another « fantasy » saxophone brand ?
Aren’t Yamaha, Yanagisawa, Selmer, Keilwerth, R&C, etc… under survival pressure enough ? Shouldn’t our money fund them rather than « internet standup stars » ?
Are our beloved horns just like a pair of disposable sports socks ?
Nothing against Jay, Chad or Yanick, but hey, chacun son métier, et les vaches seront bien gardées.
 
Shouldn’t our money fund them ...
an interesting take on purchasing consumer goods as "funding" a commercial enterprise!

They're just brands - and Jay decided he could fill the rice bowl - and a particular niche - by using his brand to promote a line of sax kit. He's not the first... Even before the internet.

But there's is what the economists call signalling - what messages are being sent out about the product to build confidence or convey information.

I'm ambivalent. But the "good" (positive signal) thing with someone like Jay etc. is is that if they sell rubbish, they risk destroying their reputation/ brand. What it says is "buy this rather than a no-name sax because I have taken steps to make it good and they haven't" (no name brands, by definition, can't suffer reputational loss).
His market is, I'll bet, newbies who want / need hand-holding and confidence. So, he's well positioned for that with his learning material etc...
Seems to me the only traditional brand that really caters for beginners is Yamaha who do some teaching material as well as beginner instruments.
 
My post regarding a BetterSax - copied from a thread in 'the other place':

I had one of the these come in two days ago. A parent had bought one from Sax.co.uk and was a bit concerned that when her daughter turned up for her sax lesson with the new horn, the teacher seemed rather surprised...but not in a good way.
And here's the thing; her daughter is quite a good player, and had chosen this horn (as an upgrade from a very cheap one) over the stalwart Yamaha YAS-280...which was around the same price point.

So here are my impressions:
It's a Yanagisawa 991 copy. It's on the pricey side for a Chinese horn but, fortunately, this is reflected in the build quality.
The rod (hinge) screw action was pretty good - no overly-wobbly keys, and only one spot where a barrel end hadn't been trimmed up as neatly as it ought to have been. Fortunately its position made it a cosmetic issue rather than a practical one. The point screw action (it uses slightly spear-headed points) wasn't quite so good, with a handful of keys showing some lateral play - some of which was corrected by tightening up the screws. I marked the rest down as needing some attention, but that it could wait until the horn came in for a proper service.

There was some excess play in the octave mech (Selmer-style swivel mech) - but this too could be dealt with at a later date. The rollers were a little on the short side.

Neat and tidy solderwork - with the toneholes at least passing a visual inspection. Decent-looking pads fitted - and on the whole quite well set, with three or four needing a good tweak. Some double action on the lower stack too along with a couple of regulation issues on the A/Bis Bb and the G# - and this in spite of the shop claiming that all their horns are 'professionally set up'. One cork had fallen off (the low F reg. cork).

Tonewise - well, it's a Yani copy, so it has more than a passing nod to the Yani soundscape. I can see why the student chose it over the 280. While it it doesn't have the clarity and cut of the Yamaha, and isn't as free-blowing, it's nonetheless a broader tone. And a very nice blow. I was pleased enough with it to reassure the client that they hadn't bought a pup, and that it was reasonably priced for the build quality.
The Yamaha pips it for build quality, but it's a viable alternative (at a slightly cheaper price) for a player who wants a horn with a slightly darker soundscape. And being a Yani copy it benefits from the ergonomics.
I would still say that this horn would improve with a proper set-up after purchase (moreso than the Yamaha), but that the structure of the horn is significantly better than a run-of-the-mill Ultra-Cheap horn.

Whether these impressions remain consistent between other examples remains to be seen, of course.
 
The thing that seems to get lost, over and over, is that all of these "house brand" horns are basically the same thing, from the same one or two or three Chinese factories that make horns to the spec of the buyer. You order 100 (or however many) and they stamp whatever name you want on the bell. Jay Metcalfe, "Better Sax", Sax.Co.Uk., Chad, Reuben Allen, or "Bill's Transmission Service and Saxophone Company", it's all the same. If you have clout (like, you order 1500 or 5000 a year) then you get to go in and make some QC arrangements, maybe.

If next year you've sold out alll your 100 pcs, you may well find that your next order goes to a different factory.

The name on these things means almost nothing unless it's someone like Yamaha who would have sufficient clout to work a JV and actually (maybe) has investment in the factory. But Bill's Transmission Service gets what they're going to send him.
 
copied from a thread in 'the other place':
AKA SaxOnTheWeb (yes we are allowed to say it) :)

Why should we need yet another « fantasy » saxophone brand
Sheepishly mention the Cafesaxophone "fantasy" brand. In hindsight I'm now a bit relieved it remained literally a fantasy. The desire to invest in something that wasn't just another "badged" China or Taiwan instrument was incredibly stressful.
 
The thing that seems to get lost, over and over, is that all of these "house brand" horns are basically the same thing
True... Not the "get lost" bit, that's just polemical, but that they are OEM... Like so many gadgets etc.
But OEM still presents choices. Look at his reeds. IIRC Made in the same factory as Roberto's and BSS... All Rigotti, no? I'm sure rigotti have a list of choices house brands can choose from... Roberto's are $10 more expensive than Jay's for some reason
 
When the cost of manufacturing exceeds what the market will support, the company will go bankrupt.

The cost of manufacturing feeds into the price point you want / can sell at... Particularly for labour intensive steps, like QA.. important in this context... And Boeing
 
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From a musician’s perspective, my perplexity remains. Why should we need yet another « fantasy » saxophone brand ?
I don't think they are a fantasy brand. To me, they look just like any other standard Chinese sax, and I struggle to see any reason to buy it. A YouTube 'influencer' telling the world it is, well, a better sax actually puts me off.
 

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