Improvising

[triniatlarge]

I need some help in understanding the rut I am in in improvising. I have been playing for many years without knowing theory and I had hit a wall in playing which made me frustrated. Someone explained to me that I needed to learn my scales and why. Now I am always in key, my fingers know where to land in key. The problem is now that my playing sounds "linear" which is my defination of playing up and down the scale. Sometimes I might here something outside the scale and play it but that throws me off and I don't know where to land. I play around the melody and not create a whole new direction like Kenny Garret or Coltrane. So I have now hit another wall. How do I get out of the box? I hate when I play it seems I land on the wrong note, it is not out of the scale but it does not sound like it is what I should have played and then I play a note down or up to resolve it. I heard a guy play a flute on a gig but it sounded like he was practising playing various patters but i dont want to be playing patters I want to say something in the most craftiest way. I hope I am asking the right questions. I practise scale and I know the sharps and flats but is there more? What do I need to fix this problem
Thanks

 

[Simon]

Hi
You've mentioned theory, scales, patterns, accidentals... but not music. If this is all music was we'd be listening to computers doing math equations.

Seriously, you need to get listening to recordings / gigs etc and copying players / styles etc that you like. Copy their ideas, transcribe... This is the stuff that will find its way into your playing.

I once thought that improvising was about learning theory - it isn't. Its a short cut to retrospectively understand what some else played, much like the 'paint by numbers' idea where this colour goes here etc on a board that has already got the image sketched out for you.

If you're an alto I'd recommend starting with guys like (old school) Paul Desmond, Eddie Cleanhead Vinson, Johnny Hodges, Bird with Strings, Cannonball Adderley; Dave Sanborn, Gerald Albright, Willie Smith...

Tenors - Lester Young, Coleman Hawkins, Ben Webster, Gene Ammons; Bob Berg, Andy Snitzer, Lenny Pickett...

Discovering music and hearing as much as poss from these guys is way more fun than dry theory (for me). Sure you might not be able to play (at the moment) what they can, but isn't that the point? To improve, learn new ideas - and why not learn from the acknowledged players?!

So LISTEN! copy - assimilate - then one day, innovate...

My 5p

Simon

 

[Pete Thomas]

I can't add much to that excellent advice. transcribe lots, and learn the solos you transcribe. And sing them.

 

[tris]

What more can be said?

The bottom line for me is that the answer to any musical question can be found by listening to music!

 

[Bobby G]

If you read, maybe transcriptions of favourite solos are available; these could be useful if your ears are not as good as they could be, and a combination of relating what's written to what's going into your ears could in fact help your ear-training.

Another thing you could do is when you've got a lick or a run down from listening to it, try playing it in different ways, such as timing it, accenting it or slurring it differently, or taking smaller fragments and doing the same. Charlie Rouse with the Monk quartet was good at that kind of thing, as was Monk himself. This can teach you rhythmic as well as pitch variation.

Another thing I do, apart from the obvious Aebersold playalong CD's which I tend not to over-use, is play along with CD's of all styles, or even the radio, playing licks, runs or more extended solos to fit with the music - this also helps you learn how to fit your playing into the surrounding music. Another alternative if you are playing along with tunes is to try and follow the instrumental or vocal melody (or even harmonise) - very good for developing your ear.

I'm in total agreement with the people who suggest a good way to learn music is to listen to music, then maybe learn the theory or better reading skills to allow you to retrospectively understand what you are playing, but I would say don't 'understand' all the feel out of your playing. I'm not in any way knocking a musical education, but let the learning serve your musical sensibilities...

The obvious follow-up remark to learning music by listening to music is to then take that and play music.

Basically, just muck about until you find something you like ! 🙂

Cheers, Bob

 

[Melissa]

my band teacher is making us improvise for our jazz band. I must say, most of us are pretty horrible at it 😛

I think though, with practice, it also becomes easier to do what you want with improvisation. At least I think I have gotten better over time.

 

[tengu01]

Good advice all around. Before I got a teacher, I used to jam along with tunes I liked, jazz or otherwise. Came in really handy.

Now I'm trying to transcribe solos, take good phrases & learn to play them in 12 keys. Damn hard work it is too. However, I am hoping it can help me out of the rut I am currently in, where my improvisation seemed to be really.....simple compared to other saxophone players at jam sessions.

Nothing wrong with simple, but when I wanted to go up a gear, there really wasn't anywhere to go. Or perhaps I just didn't have the ideas.

Anyway, I once asked a similar question to a really amazing australian tenor sax player Jamie Oehlers. He said he'd learned everything from copying and playing solos of players he liked. Music first and the technique followed from there.

Good luck

 

[disco_volante]

I'm into learning particular phrases too. Using them as points of reference to base your improvisation on and then trying to use your ears as you are improvising to take then somewhere new. This is what's working for me at the mo.

 

[chrisshaw]

I was reading Bobby G's post, to jam with the radio, T.V. It reminded me of when I played the electric guitar. I bought this clip on belt battery amp and walked around and soloed with everthing.
I remember I did a lead solo for 10 minutes to the hum of the washing machine. Thankfully I stopped smoking that stuff.

But yea stick a CD on and join in the Jam, I love playing along with Coltrane, Hendrix and Chopin.

 

[Bobby G]

Another good thing about jamming along with things; it teaches you the value of silence, or when not to play, particularly good for playing with singers.

Another good way to improvise, and develop your ear, while at the same time not pushing you right out-front if you are a little self-conscious, is to go to jams but don't take a solo. Sooner or later, one or two horns will start coming up with simpler background riffs which you can play along with, harmonise to, etc., or you can even initiate this. I've done this several times at jams, and although I feel quite comfortable taking a short solo on a simpler tune, I really enjoy being part of an impromptu section. Then you don't feel bad if you muck up a bit as you are off-mic somewhere in the background.
Cheers, Bob

 

[lee_]

One thing I woodshed on at times is to play all my "normal" improve stuff while trying to randomly leave out at least half of the notes. Obviously, you can do this many different ways, even though it's the same riffs, scales, licks, etc. I've discovered some new approaches this way, also some stuff that sounded horrendous.


You might also find some inspiration in a little book by Kenny Werner, "Effortless Mastery." Werner is a jazz pianist. His book is about meditations and techniques to get in touch with the music and let it flow from whereever it is that it comes from. A lofty likely unattainable goal, obviously, but his exercises are helpful for breaking out of self-imposed ruts.

Getting out of your own way - that is the nut of it, isn't it?

 

[JohnB]

"I remember I did a lead solo for 10 minutes to the hum of the washing machine."

isnt that track on one of aebersolds along with the pneumatic drill and the electricity pilon.....?! 😉

 

[Bobby G]

JohnB wrote:
"I remember I did a lead solo for 10 minutes to the hum of the washing machine."

isnt that track on one of aebersolds along with the pneumatic drill and the electricity pilon.....?! 😉

Many years ago, I went to a gig at the Rainbow in Finsbury Park to see Faust, a bunch of German avant-rockers. The whole show took place in near-darkness, the main lights being from the amplifiers, apart from one section where a member of the band stepped out front, into the small pool of light from a suddenly-illuminated bright white spotlight, and proceeded to play a solo on a small pneumatic drill and a large piece of timber. I don't recall any avant-garde fretless banjo, though.

Cheers, Bob