Growling (the Return)

[Veggie Dave]

I'm just wondering if any of the growlers out there find growling affects their throat at all?

 

[Jonesy]

Whenever I've tried growling, I end up having a coughing fit.
Strangely, a couple of months ago when I had bad catarrh after a long bout of flu, I was complimented on my nice growling tone.

 

[altissimo]

it does, but you get used to it - I do tend to carry a supply of throat lozenges just in case...
you can hum instead of growling and it's not so bad on the throat

 

[Colin the Bear]

"If it hurts you're doing it wrong"

This advice will apply to many walks of life.

I tend to groan rather than growl except for short bursts. The difference in sound is minimal and not worth the effort and the pain. Being a singist I need to look after my throat.

 

[Veggie Dave]

I try to hum rather than growl but I find the instrument seems to reflect the growl effect back into the throat which then increases the amount I growl.

I just wondered if I was somehow doing it wrong but it appears not. Excellent news.

 

[spike]

You should just be humming. The note created by the vocal chords should just be sufficient to produce a distortion in the airflow.
You can of course use a strong guteral sound - as in clearing the throat, but that can lead to coughing, spluttering and a painful throat.
Don't forget that "the growl" is an effect so don't over use it otherwise it's not an effect anymore.

To produce a rich strong tone in the low notes of the second register. Play them from the very bottom of the horn without the octave key and allow the lower partials to be present in the note.

With a bit of practice you can in fact play all the second register without using the octave key and if you add some hum (growl") as well it'll sound very down and dirty.

 

[Veggie Dave]

You can of course use a strong guteral sound - as in clearing the throat, but that can lead to coughing, spluttering and a painful throat.

I hum rather than growl, but I find my tenor amplifies the hum in my throat and there's nothing I can do about it. It's odd but seemingly not unusual. It's never caused me to splutter or cough while playing, though.

Don't forget that "the growl" is an effect so don't over use it otherwise it's not an effect anymore.

In my normal playing I very rarely use it. When I'm pretending to be Dick Parry I use it a lot, and it's always while playing at maximum volume. Of course, the excitement of the gig doesn't help as I find I get even more exuberant.

With a bit of practice you can in fact play all the second register without using the octave key and if you add some hum (growl") as well it'll sound very down and dirty.

I've practised this recently. With added growl I find it's a bit over-powering to be honest but I find that growling in the lower register on the tenor is a little unsubtle anyway. For the most part I think the alto is a much better instrument if you want to growl from top to bottom.

I've only just discovered in can subtone, too, mostly because I didn't really know what subtoning was. I thought it had to do with playing quietly but if I understand the technique properly then you can do it and still retain a reasonable sound level. I use it to mimic the sound of a bari on the Floyd song, Us and Them.

 

[jbtsax]

I'm confused. Humming at the same time one is playing produces a "Growl". There is an inference in this thread that they are two separate things. Grrr. . . . that was a growl produced without the saxophone. Hmmmmm. . . . that was a hum produced without the saxophone.

 

[saxyjt]

I'm confused. Humming at the same time one is playing produces a "Growl". There is an inference in this thread that they are two separate things. Grrr. . . . that was a growl produced without the saxophone. Hmmmmm. . . . that was a hum produced without the saxophone.

Not so easy to express with words.

By the way, anyone tried the maori's haka 'roaring' while playing?

 

[Veggie Dave]

If I understand your point, you can hum and create a distorted like sound while playing and you can growl and create a more distorted like sound both of which result in an effect known as growling. Humming is much more gentle on the throat while producing an almost identical sound to that produced when you physically growl into the instrument.

If you want you can even roar into the instrument if the surrounding music is loud enough, although how close it is to the Maori's haka is open to debate.

 

[jbtsax]

I have never heard of actually "growling" to make a "growl sound" on a saxophone. You're not making this up are you?

 

[kevgermany]

You can growl John, it works, but is terribly hard on the throat.

 

[Veggie Dave]

I try to hum (technically I make an ah sound) but I find the vibrations coming back from the sax add a gruffness to my hum that I have no control over - other than to stop humming. The only way I can describe the feeling is as an actual growl. The ah becomes an argh if you like. I can make the sound more extreme by increasing the gruffness, into something resembling a real growl I guess (I'm not sure I'd recommend it, though, as I can't imagine most people's throats would last for very long - mine certainly wouldn't), but what I can't do is stop the sax from changing the ah into an argh in my throat. I'm assuming from other comments that this is normal.

 

[altissimo]

I have never heard of actually "growling" to make a "growl sound" on a saxophone. You're not making this up are you?

you've led such a sheltered life..

 

[spike]

If only Steve Douglas was still with us.
Replace humming with singing (or just make a sound with the vocal chords)- is the easiest way to create a growl..
Growling whilst playing the note produces an even more severe growl.
Shaking your epiglotis whilst playing the note also produces a growl - is however difficult to do and not recommended.

 

[Targa]

Shaking your epiglotis whilst playing the note also produces a growl - is however difficult to do and not recommended.

For more special effects.

 

[jbtsax]

I try to hum (technically I make an ah sound) but I find the vibrations coming back from the sax add a gruffness to my hum that I have no control over - other than to stop humming. The only way I can describe the feeling is as an actual growl. The ah becomes an argh if you like. I can make the sound more extreme by increasing the gruffness, into something resembling a real growl I guess (I'm not sure I'd recommend it, though, as I can't imagine most people's throats would last for very long - mine certainly wouldn't), but what I can't do is stop the sax from changing the ah into an argh in my throat. I'm assuming from other comments that this is normal.

This might be great for "Talk Like a Pirate Day", but for growling on a saxophone----not so good, methinks.

A hum is done with the lips closed. The voice box is making the hmmmm sound as the air passes through it.. The moving air goes out the nose. Humming is basically singing "Ahhh" with the lips closed.

Now, what makes the hum useful when playing the saxophone is to start with the same sound but allowing the air to pass through the mouth. It no longer sounds like Hmmm, but Vvvvvvvvvvv instead. This is how I have "growled" and taught students how to "growl" for years. I promise it won't turn into "argh". Different effects can be achieved by humming the same notes you are playing, or by humming in harmony. Fourths and fifths are really cool.

 

[Veggie Dave]

I'm really sorry but I don't understand your explanation at all. How are you supposed to make a Vvvvv sound? I can only assume what I'm describing as argh, you're describing as Vvvv.

 

[spike]

Must apologize, I always make the same mistake, it's the Uvula and not the Epiglotis that needs to waggle.
All three methods and more besides can be found demonstrated by Steve Douglas on his "Rock and Roll Saxophone" VHS produced by HOTLICKS. Unfortunately seems to be no longer available.

 

[Veggie Dave]

Hotlicks! Wow, that takes me back!