Saxophones Engraving on saxophones - what do you think?

[Targa]

Dare I ask...

NO
Jx

Of course he can ask but I'm too courteous to answer.

 

[jbtsax]

Since when?

 

[Targa]

Since when?

5:12

 

[RyanCannonball]

One of our engravers just finished this custom dragon design for a sax player who (like many in this thread) prefers a unique looking horn:

Instagram photo by Cannonball Musical Instruments • Jul 19, 2016 at 10:15pm UTC

 

[trimmy]

One of our engravers just finished this custom dragon design for a sax player who (like many in this thread) prefers a unique looking horn:
View attachment 7625
Instagram photo by Cannonball Musical Instruments • Jul 19, 2016 at 10:15pm UTC

Is there an extra cost for a personalised engraving ? Shouldn't be should there because it's hand engraved anyhow!

 

[Veggie Dave]

I think this thread is showing that most sax manufacturers are missing a big issue with their product.

Without the engraving, saxes can appeal to anyone, any gender and any musician from any genre. As soon as you cover them in flowers, leaves and variations thereof you instantly alienate a huge potential number of people.

When real instruments seem to be losing popularity to digital music production anyway, especially with young musicians, it seems more than a little odd to intentionally alienate new players by decorating already expensive instruments with designs that even the most hardcore WI member would think might be just a little too kitsch even for her.

Cannonball have obviously realised what is fairly evident - you don't intentionally alienate new customers, particularly by adding something that is 100% irrelevant to either the mechanics of the instrument or the sound it produces. You can offer plain, traditional and modern designs - it doesn't make you a bad person, it makes you a canny company.

 

[RyanCannonball]

Is there an extra cost for a personalised engraving ? Shouldn't be should there because it's hand engraved anyhow!

If only! The artist spent a few hours perfecting the design (for example, notice the claw grasping the center brace of the bell key guard) and the custom engravings generally take longer to cut. We have to cover those costs, but the additional charge is very reasonable.

 

[Colin the Bear]

A mass produced, same every time, engraving on a production line, can be done by a trained operative. A one off custom design needs a skilled artisan. A bit like comparing a print with an oil painting. Personally I'm not bothered. My saxes ain't for looking at.

 

[RyanCannonball]

I think this thread is showing that most sax manufacturers are missing a big issue with their product.

Without the engraving, saxes can appeal to anyone, any gender and any musician from any genre. As soon as you cover them in flowers, leaves and variations thereof you instantly alienate a huge potential number of people.

When real instruments seem to be losing popularity to digital music production anyway, especially with young musicians, it seems more than a little odd to intentionally alienate new players by decorating already expensive instruments with designs that even the most hardcore WI member would think might be just a little too kitsch even for her.

Cannonball have obviously realised what is fairly evident - you don't intentionally alienate new customers, particularly by adding something that is 100% irrelevant to either the mechanics of the instrument or the sound it produces. You can offer plain, traditional and modern designs - it doesn't make you a bad person, it makes you a canny company.

Well put. While someone may love one of our engravings, another motif may not appeal to him/her.

And that's just fine - saxophonists are individuals, and their instruments should reflect that.

 

[trimmy]

but the additional charge is very reasonable

That's good to hear, since seeing and hearing Gerald Albright on his Cannonballs I've wanted to try one out and who knows buy one.

My saxes ain't for looking at.

Hurtful how hurtful

 

[Colin the Bear]

 

[Veggie Dave]

<groan>

 

[Targa]

<groan>

Don't worry it's got the copyright mark on it, @kevgermany will be here soon.

 

[Alphorn]

Just had a look at the elaborate engravings shown in this thread. They may appeal to some but to me they are simply overdone. Seems to me engraving follows the notion of how many swirls you can place within 1 square inch. What is the value of an engraving where you need magnifying glasses to resolve the details? Saxes need some engraving for sure but it should be clean enough to give away details from a little distance. Engraving the bell and neck is beautiful but what is the point in engraving the tube? A bit more variety besides floral designs would be a good thing especially some more graphic egravings. Are there sax engravings from the Bauhaus period? That would be a great thing.

Alphorn

 

[ac30kev]

Engraving can be likened to tattooing; both can be formidable and both can be repulsive, depending on your point of view... beauty is in the eye of the beholder (or sax-holder as the case may be).

 

[DavidUK]

Love Jason's stuff...

IMG_4249 by Jason DuMars, on Flickr

IMG_0157 by Jason DuMars, on Flickr

Ancient engraving projects by Jason DuMars, on Flickr

Conn New Wonder tenor by Jason DuMars, on Flickr

@jdumars - once you've engraved a sax, what do you recommend for keeping the design away from tarnish, red rot, etc? Is it different for bare brass than to a lacquered sax where you've cut through the lacquer?
How many owners have you re-lacquer over your engraving once finished? That must up the price many fold?

 

[jdumars]

Hi David,

I don't typically apply any finish after the fact, although I often get instruments in the middle stage of the plating/lacquering process. Engraving through the lacquer or plating is fine as long as the owner doesn't neglect it. Keeping it wiped down and clean is important, and should be regardless of engraving.

And, thank you for the kind words about my work. I wish I had more time to dedicate to it. Incidentally, the Celtic knot horn on the bottom is probably the most-engraved sax in history. It's engraved in reverse.

Love Jason's stuff...

IMG_4249 by Jason DuMars, on Flickr

IMG_0157 by Jason DuMars, on Flickr

Ancient engraving projects by Jason DuMars, on Flickr

Conn New Wonder tenor by Jason DuMars, on Flickr

@jdumars - once you've engraved a sax, what do you recommend for keeping the design away from tarnish, red rot, etc? Is it different for bare brass than to a lacquered sax where you've cut through the lacquer?
How many owners have you re-lacquer over your engraving once finished? That must up the price many fold?

 

[DavidUK]

@jdumars - I had a Yamaha tenor a while ago where the bow had a large area of discolouration under the lacquer which I put down to the air somehow getting between brass and lacquer.

Where there's a nick or scratch in lacquer, does this give an access point for tarnishing to spread if the lacquer hasn't been applied well, or is it that in the vast majority of cases only the nick (or engraving) is going to get attacked by the air, leaving the surrounding lacquered brass in its original shiny state?

I think, once corrosion has set into an engraved line it will spread under the adjacent lacquer and become "nasty". What should be used to "wipe down" so as to avoid this the best? I know of no chemical which prevents brass from tarnishing, only those remedies to bring it back, most of which are aggressive.

Rennaisance wax is the best thing I've so far found.

 

[jdumars]

After many years of use, it can affect the brass around it, but it doesn't always. There are plenty of pristine engraved-through-the-lacquer Conns and Selmers around like this one:

1949 SELMER SUPER ACTION SAXOPHONE

Just wiping it down with a soft cloth seems to keep deterioration at bay ad infinitum. I've had my own engraved horns in regular use for over a decade with no deleterious affects.

@jdumars - I had a Yamaha tenor a while ago where the bow had a large area of discolouration under the lacquer which I put down to the air somehow getting between brass and lacquer.

Where there's a nick or scratch in lacquer, does this give an access point for tarnishing to spread if the lacquer hasn't been applied well, or is it that in the vast majority of cases only the nick (or engraving) is going to get attacked by the air, leaving the surrounding lacquered brass in its original shiny state?

I think, once corrosion has set into an engraved line it will spread under the adjacent lacquer and become "nasty". What should be used to "wipe down" so as to avoid this the best? I know of no chemical which prevents brass from tarnishing, only those remedies to bring it back, most of which are aggressive.

Rennaisance wax is the best thing I've so far found.

 

[ac30kev]

Love Jason's stuff...

IMG_4249 by Jason DuMars, on Flickr

IMG_0157 by Jason DuMars, on Flickr

Ancient engraving projects by Jason DuMars, on Flickr

Conn New Wonder tenor by Jason DuMars, on Flickr

@jdumars - once you've engraved a sax, what do you recommend for keeping the design away from tarnish, red rot, etc? Is it different for bare brass than to a lacquered sax where you've cut through the lacquer?
How many owners have you re-lacquer over your engraving once finished? That must up the price many fold?

These are absolutely glorious pieces of art, especially the Conn New Wonder. Simply fabulous.