Chord transposition

[eb424]

I know, you think D# is the same as Eb.... But it's very complicated - you tell me how many sharp in the key of D#. See what I mean?

I can't actually tell you without at least 15 seconds of my brain hurting. And the number of sharps in the key of G# takes 19 seconds.

I know it's wrong but I always covert Eb to a sharp...

point taken theres no D# in the circle of fiths not so good on the flat side of the circle...GDAE so 3 Bs Battle ends and down goes Charles Father, B E and D bs Bb =s A# Eb =s D#, Ab=s G#... I think

G#=s Ab so 4#s BEAD, Bb=s A#, Eb=s D#, Ab=s G#, Db =s C#...

Miles of I bet.

it's not pedantic there must be a reason..it's only that I don't play many songs with flats in mainly sharps.. If one comes up as an accidental (if thats the right term ) I convert it..

 

[Pete Thomas]

I have bought Petes course on chords reference book

We are very grateful - all supporting our fundraising. (I didn't actually do a course on chords reference but I think you bought vol2 about Beginners impro)

I know it's wrong but I always covert Eb to a sharp..

Why? It just makes life difficult

For example:

G#=s Ab so 4#s

No. G# has 6 sharps and one double sharp. (I think- but I'm not going to bet on it)

See how much easier it would be if you didn't think the key of Ab was the key of G#?

 

[eb424]

C# - D~ er...???

Lol ~on the same key as # on the keyboard I hit the shift button..

No. G# has 6 sharps and one double sharp. (I think- but I'm not going to bet on it)

See how much easier it would be if you didn't think the key of Ab was the key of G#

ahh so that goes outside the circle of fiths, but point taken...

 

[Pete Thomas]

ahh so that goes outside the circle of fiths, but point taken...

Not outside, it just goes round again. See what I mean about making things complicated.

I often think people give the circle of fifths too much importance. At some point in time someone decided to make jazz and pop music a bit too complicated so invented all these theoretical chimeras. No that's the wrong word but close. And in fact it was probably Bach or someone else round that time who came up with it anyway. Baroque and Roll?

Rather than teach the cycle off fifths to aspiring jazz improvisers I used to teach cadences and tension/release. Much easier to grasp and a much more musical way of thinking about impro in general.

Flying a kite should not involve rocket science

 

[Targa]

Flying a kite should not involve rocket science

But does involve string theory.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Not outside, it just goes round again. See what I mean about making thing complicated.

I often think people give the circle of fifths too much importance. At some point in time someone decided to make jazz and pop music a bit too complicated so invented all these theoretical chimeras. No that's the wrong word but close. And in fact it was probably Bach or someone else round that time who came up with it anyway. Baroque and Roll?

Rather than teach the cycle off fifths to aspiring jazz improvisers I used to teach cadences and tension/release. Much easier to grasp and a much more musical way of thinking about impro in general.

Flying a kite should not involve rocket science

Oh cripes Shroedingers cat has been let out of the bag and is still in there all at the same time

 

[mizmar]

Shroedingers

Is 'oe' a known replacement for 'ö'?

 

[Dr G]

Oh cripes Shroedingers cat has been let out of the bag and is still in there all at the same time

That sounds more like a Heisenberg issue.

 

[skeller047]

Oh cripes Shroedingers cat has been let out of the bag and is still in there all at the same time

But which of them is dead?

That sounds more like a Heisenberg issue.

I think Schroedinger and Heisenberg must be cousins…

 

[Pete Effamy]

Is 'oe' a known replacement for 'ö'?

It’s a replacement for a not known whereabouts of umlauts in the near vicinity of my finger

 

[Pete Effamy]

But which of them is dead?

I think they’re both merely contemplating which way to go

 

[Pete Thomas]

But does involve string theory.

Actually my wife was a champion stunt kiter ask in the days. Seriously. But I do have to be careful when saying stunt kiter too quickly.

 

[skeller047]

@eb424 Eddie having both read and participated in this thread I just want to say this.

Theory is not a bunch of rules, it’s an after-the-fact description of what musicians do. I applaud your willingness to learn new stuff when you need to. I have the feeling you are taking a slow route through the weeds; nonetheless, continue to do what works for you, because if you try to do something that doesn’t work, then you’ll just be frustrated.

To play songs in a pub, and maybe add a few little flourishes here and there, you only need to know the melody of the song, and what key you are in. You will try to add some things that don’t work, so use your ear and judgement and soon you’ll learn what does work. You don’t need to worry about the chords at all, but try to choose notes that sound good.

If you want to play an extended improvised solo, then knowing the chords might be helpful, but “knowing the chords” really means “understanding the harmonic structure of the song”. This is why one guy calls a chord Amin7 and the other guy calls it C6. Those two chords have the same notes, which tells YOU, the improviser, what notes might sound best. But the bass player gets to settle the argument - if he plays a C, it’s a C6 and if she plays an A, it’s a Amin7. In reality, you as the melodic improviser might not care which is which, but the harmonic structure certainly changes depending on whether it’s a C or A.

The preceding paragraph is why people think theory is complicated. So let the chords suggest which notes will sound good (and maybe which will sound bad) and just use your ear. Keep the melody in mind…

Good luck with your 20 songs, I hope by this time next year it gets to 40

 

[Jimmymack]

Nicely, and clearly, put and I hope you haven't created another problem.

 

[Pete Thomas]

To play songs in a pub, and maybe add a few little flourishes here and there, you only need to know the melody of the song, and what key you are in.

Well you do need to know the melody mostly, flourishes are good, that's for sure. But I wouldn't go so far as to say you need to know what key you are in

 

[thomsax]

As for @thomsax , it seems as though he hasn’t appreciated people debating their own belief in the same way that he himself usually expresses his own.

It's nothing that you have said or done. It's nothing that I have said and done. We are not talking the same language or playing in the same keys. You play, read and think in Db. I play, read (for learning) and think in C#. If I was possible to play some easy stuff together (you are a much, much better player) I think we could both get some good out of the meeting.

I don't know how to write this but it's hard for me to take that an adult/older person can't learn new things. To read things like that is to go 100 years back. Evidence-based research shows us that age is not a problem when learning new things.

 

[thomsax]

We are very grateful - all supporting our fundraising. (I didn't actually do a course on chords reference but I think you bought vol2 about Beginners impro)

Why? It just makes life difficult

For example:



No. G# has 6 sharps and one double sharp. (I think- but I'm not going to bet on it)

See how much easier it would be if you didn't think the key of Ab was the key of G#?

If you read and play in Db and if I play and read in C# the tones that comes out from our saxes will sound the same? For me it's easier to think in sharps instead of flats. I prefer to read sharps instead of flats.

 

[Pete Thomas]

If you read and play in Db and if I play and read in C# the tones that comes out from our saxes will sound the same?

Yes, most of the time

For me it's easier to think in sharps instead of flats. I prefer to read sharps instead of flats.

Me too.

 

[Pete Effamy]

I don't know how to write this but it's hard for me to take that an adult/older person can't learn new things. To read things like that is to go 100 years back. Evidence-based research shows us that age is not a problem when learning new things.

Cool, cheers Thom. I missed who inferred that adults don’t learn too well, they were always my favourite to teach.

The definition of a good player in my book is someone who does the right thing stylistically with the music they’re playing. We serve the music in my opinion. I’m sure some of the stuff you talk about sounds best with some great honking rather than clever notes.

 

[thomsax]

Before everything was f****d up the band used to have some kind of christmas party just for close friends, family .... . We did some chistmas songs and I wanted to play bari and the 8 bar bari solo ( - upbeat ) on "Christmas, Baby Please Come for Chistmas", Darlene Love version i concert E. Picked the solo note by note and then I uploaded the solo to a player for some feedback. He sent back a transciption of the solo in Db and C#. I looked at the sheet music and then I put it away and took with me the advices I was told to thnk of. I had a problem and he helped me to solve the problem. Can things be so easy when it comes to music? He didn't start to talk about that I had to play it in all 12 keys and other theory. I learned the solo (song) by ear and played it from memory. I got some cheerful feedback from a person that really liked that we played songs like that and "carrying the torch". We all knew that it just was ok, not more, but we enjoyed it and our "inner quality watch" told us to play it a little bit better next and the year after that. The level I play at, things are "on-going projects that never ends". Of course there is alsways an end.