Chord transposition

[eb424]

Afternoon In brief

I play to backing tracks from karaoke version (KV) bought in the original key
I buy the score in the same key from music notes, these come with chords which have been not used to date.
I transpose the notes on the sheet music from a c instrument to tenor sax for practice and fun.

Improvisation is my next target and I have seen this video on you tube

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_mdkEI6HUw


The issue is that I would have to transpose chords.. Is it the same principle as with notes i.e. up 2 so C major would become D major etc or as suspected is it more complex...

 

[dexdex]

Why would it be more complex ? It is the same logic. Keep in mind that a chord and an arpeggio are the same notes, played either simultaneously (chord) or in sequence (arp).
Side note: learning some guitar has been an eye and ear opener for me. Movable chords are literally movable. Guitarists don’t understand why transposing a semi-tone is tricky on a woodwind.

 

[Jimmymack]

It's exactly the same principle.

 

[eb424]

Why would it be more complex ? It is the same logic. Keep in mind that a chord and an arpeggio are the same notes, played either simultaneously (chord) or in sequence (arp).
Side note: learning some guitar has been an eye and ear opener for me. Movable chords are literally movable. Guitarists don’t understand why transposing a semi-tone is tricky on a woodwind.

so for a novice would you just move each note up 2 in the triad..

 

[dexdex]

so for a novice would you just move each note up 2 in the triad..

Exactly. This is why I stated the arpeggios. It really is that simple.
It is only our clumsy fingerings that make it challenging.

 

[lydian]

Beware that 2 semitones up doesn’t always just put you on the next letter up. 2 semitones up from E is F#, not F. And 2 up from B is C#, not C.

 

[thomsax]

Here is something for you eb424. A chord tone chart!!! Just learn the chords that are useful for a rocker!!! Maybe you can make you own fillings/riffs/licks and solo to this month SOTM (You Never Can Tell") or learn it to the care home gig. It's "7:th chords" so the rhythm page says C7 you tranpose to D7 (chord tones; D,F#,A,C) if you are playing tenor or to A7 (chordtones;A.C#,E,G) if you are on Eb instrument. D major 7 chord is D,F#,A, C# but a D7 is D,E,A,C the 7th tone is flatten a ½ step.

 

[eb424]

Beware that 2 semitones up doesn’t always just put you on the next letter up. 2 semitones up from E is F#, not F. And 2 up from B is C#, not C.

Thanks @lydian... I am learning c is d becuse of the sharp..

 

[lydian]

Thanks @lydian... I am learning c is d becuse of the sharp..

That doesn’t mean anything to me, but if it works for you, that’s all that matters.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Here is something for you eb424. A chord tone chart!!! Just learn the chords that are useful for a rocker!!! Maybe you can make you own fillings/riffs/licks and solo to this month SOTM (You Never Can Tell") or learn it to the care home gig. It's "7:th chords" so the rhythm page says C7 you tranpose to D7 (chord tones; D,F#,A,C) if you are playing tenor or to A7 (chordtones;A.C#,E,G) if you are on Eb instrument. D major 7 chord is D,F#,A, C# but a D7 is D,E,A,C the 7th tone is flatten a ½ step.
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You talk about learning chords useful for a rocker; how is a major 7 useful?

 

[eb424]

Here is something for you eb424. A chord tone chart!!! Just learn the chords that are useful for a rocker!!! Maybe you can make you own fillings/riffs/licks and solo to this month SOTM (You Never Can Tell") or learn it to the care home gig. It's "7:th chords" so the rhythm page says C7 you tranpose to D7 (chord tones; D,F#,A,C) if you are playing tenor or to A7 (chordtones;A.C#,E,G) if you are on Eb instrument. D major 7 chord is D,F#,A, C# but a D7 is D,E,A,C the 7th tone is flatten a ½ step.
View attachment 24237View attachment 24239

not so much of a rocker..I do have never can tell I may have a go..Got my first care home gig 4 weeks so lots to do...

 

[eb424]

That doesn’t mean anything to me, but if it works for you, that’s all that matters.

lol...semitones don't always go to the next letter as there is a sharp or flat..

 

[Targa]

not so much of a rocker..I do have never can tell I may have a go..Got my first care home gig 4 weeks so lots to do...

Does 'rocker' refer to the chairs?

 

[mizmar]

In the spirit of a thread in the Café is nothing without an argument....
I'd suggest this

so for a novice would you just move each note up 2 in the triad..

Is the wrong way to think about it, while this

C major would become D major etc

Was correct.

You want to play C (concert) arpeggio on Tenor, play the D arpeggio.
But if you don't know your D arpeggio, learn your D arpeggio. If needed, look at a sheet or something. Just learn it. No need to derive it from some other key.

 

[eb424]

In the spirit of a thread in the Café is nothing without an argument....
I'd suggest this

Is the wrong way to think about it, while this

Was correct.

You want to play C (concert) arpeggio on Tenor, play the D arpeggio.
But if you don't know your D arpeggio, learn your D arpeggio. If needed, look at a sheet or something. Just learn it. No need to derive it from some other key.

Just for fun would the d arpeggio be D, F# and A

 

[mizmar]

Just for fun would the d arpeggio be D, F# and A

A good question. Check back when you've practiced the D arpeggio for a week.

 

[Wade Cornell]

Learning how to transpose is a very valuable exercise, and a lot easier on tenor or soprano that an Eb instrument. Knowing how to play in all keys is also a must for anyone serious about playing. However these skills do not = improvisation. There is a whole "school" of thinking that teaches playing "cut and paste" riffs and arpeggios as though it's improvisation. it's just playing things that sound OK (in the right chord structure), but otherwise are not necessarily communicating anything or creative. Transposing key changes, where you intellectually know notes to play which fit, does not = your having any idea what it even sounds like until it comes out of the instrument. What's creative or improvised about that?

The great players always knew what was coming out of their instrument. It was led by their hearing a line to play and executing it. The best improvisations are melodic or variations on a theme (the "head", if playing "standards"). This is a completely different exercise than "playing the changes". It's being one with your instrument and able to play what you hear regardless of the key. If one is continually "transposing" or trying to visualize rather than hear a line you'd like to play, then you're spending a lot of time NOT learning to improvise. It's an academic/mechanical process instead of an artistic creative one. It's the equivalent of being taught to paint using paint by the numbers.

 

[mizmar]

Just for fun ...

A while ago you said you where on the Online Sax Academy site, no? Chappy has a fun exercise for you... No note reeding required

View: https://youtu.be/-DtAk7HAvKo

 

[thomsax]

You talk about learning chords useful for a rocker; how is a major 7 useful?

Just trying to be a little bit funny. Most players on my level are not into complex playing.

 

[eb424]

Just trying to be a little bit funny. Most players on my level are not into complex playing.

Not so sure im on your level. .lol