Reeds Synthetic vs. Cane reeds

[Wade Cornell]

I don't accept the argument that because (some) professional players use synthetic reeds, then everybody ought to. The requirements of professionals are different from amateurs, and their capabilities are different. Charlie Parker used to play on strength 5 reeds, but that doesn't mean that the rest of us should (or could!).

My teacher uses cane and plastic reeds. He is not dogmatic about what sort of reeds I use, and if he was, I would look for a different teacher. I don't have the same sort of saxophone or mouthpiece or ligature as him, so why should my reeds be the same? If I was having problems because of my choice of reeds then maybe he would suggest something, but my difficulties are due to the player, not the equipment.

I think we are saying the same thing, but get a sense that you think I'm being dogmatic. People should definitely choose whatever works for them. The proposition I was responding to was that cane, because it's natural/organic, is better. The person proposing this has NEVER even tried a synthetic. The proposition that a beginner could benefit from using a synthetic is hardly news. Everything is a challenge when learning. Eliminating variables (initially) should be an obvious benefit. If some think throwing variables in there will make them progress further faster they have no comparative basis by which to judge whether they achieved their goal. I see it like deciding you're going to be a supermodel when just learning to walk. Will it help you to learn to walk with books balanced on your head? Logic dictates learn to walk first.

 

[Wonko]

The proposition I was responding to was that cane, because it's natural/organic, is better.

I can see how you understood it like that. But I just said that I LIKE it more because it's a natural material. It's a personal preference, not a fact.

 

[Wade Cornell]

I can see how you understood it like that. But I just said that I LIKE it more because it's a natural material. It's a personal preference, not a fact.

I'm really not trying to give you grief about this. What's posted here is seen by many who are beginners. There is a responsibility to ensure that those beginners are not taking in information that could retard their development or color their perceptions. Obviously you are free to use whatever you want. Please respect that making that choice is something that possibly shouldn't be advocated for other beginners. There are people on this site with more than half a century of experience. They are a resource for you and others. They have already made all the mistakes and may be able to help you avoid some. They can also be asked for advice!

 

[nigeld]

There is a responsibility to ensure that those beginners are not taking in information that could retard their development or color their perceptions

This is an interesting point - to what extent are the members of the Café responsible for what beginners read here?

My feeling is - not a lot in general. This is a discussion forum, not a tutorial site. I make the assumption that the Café members are responsible adults who should take anything they read with a pinch of salt. Anyone who uncritically believes everything that they read on an Internet discussion group is a fool. This doesn't mean that we are free to spread messages of hate, but it does mean, in my opinion, that we don't have to be constantly concerned about wrongly colouring the perceptions of uninformed beginners.

But on the other hand, if someone asks for advice on the Forum, then I think we should do our best to help.

So I differentiate between general comments and specific advice. For example, I think it is fine for someone to write a general post saying that they like cane reeds, or vice versa, without being concerned that they may lead beginners astray. But if a beginner asks a question about reeds and I reply that they should use strength 4 reeds immediately, then I think that would be unhelpful and possibly harmful.

 

[Jeanette]

Neither of my tutors have recommended I change to plastic reeds, my current one does use them. For beginners developing their embouchure it could prove an expensive start, depending how fast they need to go up in strength

Jx

 

[Jeanette]

This is an interesting point - to what extent are the members of the Café responsible for what beginners read here?

That's a very interesting thought. I think we all have a responsibility to give the best advice we can when asked. However our advice will be shaped by our experience and preferences. New members should take the time to "get to know" other members by interacting with them and reading their posts. Only then are you in a position to judge the advice given.

Jx

 

[aldevis]

(While fighting with a wooden reed)
I never found a synthetic reed that I liked, but I used a clarinet Legere when I was learning (as an adult) to minimize variation.
Moving to cane was relief, though.

Pete sounds great on synthetic, I find them unpleasant. Maybe one day.

 

[Jazzaferri]

I try to rotate my signatures after about an hour or so if the playing is intense. They seem to last over a year for me. I have 3 or 4 going at any one time and its hard to remember but pretty sure its well over a year

 

[pknight11]

Initially I found it a bit buzzy that this was eliminated by ensuring the tip of the reed just fractionally (and I mean minutely) went beyond the mpc tip when gently pushed aganst it.

This has been exactly my experience with the buzzy sound of these reeds. Pushing the reed up very slightly made a big difference.

 

[Thierry]

This is an interesting point - to what extent are the members of the Café responsible for what beginners read here?

My feeling is - not a lot in general. This is a discussion forum, not a tutorial site. I make the assumption that the Café members are responsible adults who should take anything they read with a pinch of salt. Anyone who uncritically believes everything that they read on an Internet discussion group is a fool. This doesn't mean that we are free to spread messages of hate, but it does mean, in my opinion, that we don't have to be constantly concerned about wrongly colouring the perceptions of uninformed beginners.

But on the other hand, if someone asks for advice on the Forum, then I think we should do our best to help.

So I differentiate between general comments and specific advice. For example, I think it is fine for someone to write a general post saying that they like cane reeds, or vice versa, without being concerned that they may lead beginners astray. But if a beginner asks a question about reeds and I reply that they should use strength 4 reeds immediately, then I think that would be unhelpful and possibly harmful.

The Cafe offers valuable advice and opinions on so many topics that have to do with owning, learning, playing or repairing horns that its members shouldn't worry about their responsibility. People who come here, even amateurs like me, are educated enough to find what they came for and disregard what is less relevant to them. Good job from all senior contributors.

 

[Thor101]

Being new to sax, what would you recommend for a beginner, synthetic or cane reeds.

 

[jazzdoh]

I am a synthetic player on alto but use cane on tenor and soprano.
Problem with synthetic is it can take a bit of money and time to find the right brand and strength but once you have done that your sorted, cane is cheaper to find your best reed but can come with extra problems of reed adjustment when you find some reeds in the box that don't play well.

 

[ajmiller]

I‘ve been playing since February so a total beginner but in my limited experience I would say cane. I was using Rico orange then Rico Royal and was going through them like rattle - probably just getting used to playing sax and maybe blowing too hard etc. I decided to try synthetic mainly for cost reasons and consistency but they never quite felt right to me. I decided to go back to cane and read about Rigotti reeds and since using them I haven’t looked back. I also felt if cane reeds had been around for so long and the players I like used them then I wanted to use them also. But then I still use film cameras and print in the darkroom so perhaps I’m a traditionalist at heart! As I say I'm a total beginner so more experienced players may have different points of view. Good luck with your playing!

 

[nigeld]

When I started, it took a while before I settled down to a particular reed strength as my chops developed. Synthetic reeds are too expensive to be changing reed strength much, so my advice would be to use cane reeds for the first few months.

Once you have settled on a reed strength then I would recommend synthetic, because they are less bother, and there are more than enough problems associated with learning the sax, so eliminating one of them is a good idea.

 

[georgesax]

I play legere signature 2 1/4. it works well for me. I use Vandoren blue 2.5 before. synthetic is more consistent and easy to use. the sound is brighter than the cane.

 

[6441]

I agree with most of what's already been said. However, the sound is different between the two types, so that is also something to consider down the road. Starting with cane (many start with 2 1/2 strength) is a good idea. When I first started playing, less than three years ago, they told me at the store that parents of young students often bought synthetics and a single one would last for a whole semester! Cane is much more quirky than synthetics. I have dozens of cane reeds and some play easy even after months, and others, out of the box do not! I usually start practicing now with a synthetic, because of the predictable feel for air supply. I move to cane after a while, to mentally note the sound difference.

 

[6441]

I play legere signature 2 1/4. it works well for me. I use Vandoren blue 2.5 before. synthetic is more consistent and easy to use. the sound is brighter than the cane.

Same here, exactly, except I still use Vandorens.

 

[MikeMorrell]

I'm with @nigeld on this. As a beginner, you'll probably find your preferences for reeds brands and strengths changing relatively quickly. That could also apply - over a longer time period - to your mpc too. So while everything's in development pretty fast, it might be wise to stick with cheaper cane reeds (despite their variability) while your embouchure develops and you find a reasonably stable mpc/reed combination that you can comfortable use for the next few years. Then you can compare cane reeds with synthetic. Both in terms of playability and sound.

 

[Adrian63]

I love " Bari " reeds ( the original synthetic so far as i know ). Not only do they sound great but it's that consistency thing ; knowing that were will be no fluctuation in sound , strength and reliability..
I do use cane also ; Rico Orange or LaVoz ; don't have a lot of time for boutique reeds nor their price...

 

[ChampagneBears]

I’m a returner/beginner. Most recently re-started in October 2019. I started using Rico orange 2.0 as it was included in the new Yamaha YAS-26 sax I rented. It worked so I bought a box of 10. Then, my band mates said that they had “invented” synthetic reeds since I was last playing as a child. So as not to look outdated, I bought a Legere Studio Cut 1.75. I thought it was the best thing since sliced bread.

Then, a couple months later, in February 2020, I started to be unable to play certain notes consistently. I didn’t know it at the time but that reed had become too soft for me. I was blowing too hard for it. I had already outgrew it. So, I switched back to my Rico orange 2.0 and found the cane reed much more controllable in terms of dynamics. It was also a better sound for me; more colour, more nuance. But I soon outgrew the 2.0’s too, as the reeds were not lasting longer than a week or 2, before they became too soft for me.

My teacher advised that I switch to Rico orange 2.5, since I was using a Yamaha 4C mouthpiece. Upon asking if I should switch to Rico Royals or another brand instead (e.g., Vandorens, which he plays), he advised to make one change at a time, and see how it goes. So I went with the Rico orange 2.5 and while there was noticeable resistance at first, it has made my playing so much more consistent and dynamics are so much more controllable.

I suspect that my embouchure will continue to develop and I will continue to try different reed brands and strengths. It just seems a waste that I wasn’t able to finish my first box of 10 before I moved on.

I would like to try the Legere Signature 2.25 next...you really can’t beat the convenience of synthetic although I hope it will be better than the too-soft Studio Cut I had before in terms of dynamic control.

I think finding the right reed as a beginner is a very personal journey, with a lot of self discovery, and trial and error.

So, what would I recommend as a beginner to a beginner? Probably a Rico orange 2.0 or 2.5, or Legere Signature 2.0, realizing it’s just a start. But I guess it also depends on what mouthpiece you have. Rico orange is labelled a student reed for a reason - they’re easy to play and pretty consistent. That’s what I’ve found in my short experience with them.