Side to side mouthpiece concave table

[Janosax]

Hello,

I have an issue with my Lebayle LRII 8* metal mouthpiece. It has a side to side concave table, by design to accomodate cane reed swelling. Don't seems to affect playability on cane/plasticover reeds as they are no leaking. But my new Ponzol Proreed synthetic reed has some leaking as it's 100% rigid and flat, only with my Lebayle ring ligature which applies pression on reed edges. With V16 Optimum lig, I've got no leaking. I've made a test with some saliva between reed and table, and while blowing the MPC with a finger in the MPC for etancheity I can very slightly hear bubbles, so it leaks. It's very slight however. When I put some cork grease between Proreed and table, no more leaking at all. And again it's only with synthetic reed/ring ligature combination.

Some illustrations here, with a first pic of my MPC with Proreed/ring lig with a light in my hand to show the leak:

With some cork grease between reed and table:

And here with V16 lig longitudinal rails plate and no cork grease:

I played a lot this V16 lig on my precedent MPCS which were a Yani metal and a V16 metal. But the Lebayle was selled with the ring lig, and liked it a lot as it gives a darker and focused tone with slightly wider low register. So I asked myself, is it clamping method and added material, or concave table whick make the difference? Pete Thomas is certainly right when he mentions perceived differences between ligs are more related to MPC table concavity than ligs specs in itself, even if he spokes more about lenght concavity than side to side one. With cork grease, the tone on Proreed seems to be a bit brighter with more eveness on the whole register, but really not by that much as with saliva too leak is really pretty minimal (air column in sax is a lot less resistant than saliva on a little leak like that). But again, it seems to be a very slight difference in reed/tone reactions, not even that consistent. I even tend to prefer the sound without cork grease, but it can be 100% in my head too : ))

So I ask myself... refacing or not? Cork grease seems to cure the issue with this ring lig on synthetic reed. And V16 lig has no issues at all. So refacing/flattening table despite offering a more permanent and reed friendly solution will scratches the Rhodium plating, and will asks for global refacing as table reduction changes tip opening. I can lose on this, if the character of this MPC is lost in the process, as I like it a lot like that.

What do you think about this?

Thanks.

 

[Janosax]

@La Chèvre : If you reed this, are still satisfied with Saxophone Boutique Pat Morisson rafacing work? I've tried to send you a private message but your inbox is full : )

 

[aldevis]

Tough question.
How difficult is to find a good reed?

 

[Janosax]

Plasticover reeds are almost always good on that MPC, only one per two box of 5 is not fun/too hard to play, that's all.

 

[aldevis]

I'd keep is as it is, then.

 

[kevgermany]

I'd find a mouthpiece that doesn't have a concave table. This idea has been tried on and off over many years, but has not been successful. Looks as if nothing has changed.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Adapting anything to make it use something it isn't designed to accommodate is fraught with problems, expense and possible disappointment. Cane reeds can be adjusted simply and quickly so that every one in the box plays. Practice is more important than kit.

 

[Janosax]

Thanks for all replies. As I say, cane reeds almost all play well on that MPC without any modification, as facing seems pretty well done. Leak is only with synthetic reed and ring lig. In reality it looks much more minor than on the picture I taked BTW. Cork grease fix the issue, and synthetic reed will not have any issue with that. It's a not destructive resolution, so seems to be the simplest way to go.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Mind you don't get cork grease on your lips. It don't half smart. I don't think it's been tested for human consumption either. Petroleum based products can make you feel rather ill.

 

[Janosax]

Thanks very much for this advice. Any suggestion about cork grease alternative?

BTW I'm a "one mouthpiece" guy, can't play several MPC I even don't keep those I don't play and sell them. When I find a good/better mouthpiece I keep it several years and practice a lot to get my sound until I find some limits or feel the need to go to another sound direction. When I'm searching for a new MPC it's long and difficult to decide myself on which one is the new best for me. So for this period it's the Lebayle, I love this mouthpiece and get my sound on it.
lol

 

[Ivan]

Petroleum based products can make you feel rather ill.

The makers of Vaseline may take issue with that statement

Unless you do something you shouldn't do with it

 

[aldevis]

Thanks for all replies. As I say, cane reeds almost all play well on that MPC without any modification, as facing seems pretty well done. Leak is only with synthetic reed and ring lig. In reality it looks much more minor than on the picture I taked BTW. Cork grease fix the issue, and synthetic reed will not have any issue with that. It's a not destructive resolution, so seems to be the simplest way to go.

Probably some lip balm.

Petroleum based products can make you feel rather ill.

I am pretty sure that many greasy spoons around here use petroleum based products in their fish&chips

 

[carburetor]

Any suggestion about cork grease alternative?

D'Addario Woodwinds All Natural Cork Grease

Ingredients: Extra virgin olive oil, sunflower oil, coconut oil, soy wax, jojoba wax, pomegranate sterols, castor oil, carnauba wax, shea butter, hemp seed oil, candelillia wax, slippery elm extract, marshmallow root extract, aloe vera oil, and finally vitamin E (from a review on Amazon.com)

 

[Targa]

D'Addario Woodwinds All Natural Cork Grease

Ingredients: Extra virgin olive oil, sunflower oil, coconut oil, soy wax, jojoba wax, pomegranate sterols, castor oil, carnauba wax, shea butter, hemp seed oil, candelillia wax, slippery elm extract, marshmallow root extract, aloe vera oil, and finally vitamin E (from a review on Amazon.com)

I'm surprised they didn't add 'Suitable for vegetarians'.

 

[nigeld]

I can imagine a heated discussion about whether and how different types of cork grease affect the sound/intonation of the saxophone. Maybe someone could plant a post on SOTW.

 

[Colin the Bear]

I suggest that using that particular grease may make the player tend to rush passages in order to relieve the pressure building in the colon.

 

[Colin the Bear]

The makers of Vaseline may take issue with that statement

Unless you do something you shouldn't do with it

Like eat it?

 

[Janosax]

Thanks for answers and lip balm idea, it works pretty good I must say : )

Well, I hate those kind of issues as I tend to be obessive a little bit, and music is all about emotion and not brain game.

But in fact the sax is a mechanical/instrument, not just a projection of soul in sound. And the more I forget about those technical aspects, even if I like them too, the more I'm in peace with myself by having fun with my playing and sound.

But.... I have another issue. This time, it seems to be worst. I have leaking on rails when biting the synthetic reed. Seems to be related to long facing curve/shape, big tip opening, and reed material flexibility. I've started this thread because I had an intuition and started looking my MPC reed matching. Again, no issues with cane reed, only with synthetic one. I've heard some air leaking while playing and thought it was embouchure issue because of playing a harder reed. In fact, blowing some water though finger sealed MPC show leaking between rails and reed. Nothing related to concave table, only to facing and reed material. No lig cure this, and leak are further my lips position on MPC. It's not good, look at those pictures:

Pics spokes by themseves. When I applied pressure with thumb on the reed, there are leaks between rails and reed. This can explain some difficulties with altissimo... as I bite harder to reach them and they're not very stable with this reed, tone tend to "break" a little.

This reed was so good to blow, and just made a review ....

I have sent a mail to Ponzol about that.

Have you ever heard of this kind of issues?

 

[kevgermany]

Maybe try some different reeds, cane possibly. Does sound as if the Ponzol isn't suited to this mouthpiece.

 

[Ivan]

A marriage made in heaven

Undone in Cafe Sax