Playing with and without upper denture

[Hoosierken]

I added a little poll to my post and I did find some old threads about this subject. I have a full upper denture and partial lower. I have most of my lower teeth but no upper. I have been trying to work on my tone as many of my notes are thin especially anything octave C and above. I also have a problem with biting and sending my middle G and G# off into overtone hell. I was listening to a Youtube vid today about how to correct biting and the lady suggested a double lip approach. I think that is what she called it, to correct biting quickly. She wasn't recommending using all of the time only when you catch yourself biting. Anyway, I had noticed that I sounded better if I kept my upper teeth slightly off of the MP which is tough to do for long. I tried her lip thing but my denture it too big to be able to cover my upper teeth very long at all.

Long story short, I took out the upper denture and my sound improved more than 50%. My volume increased without adding more air, the stuffiness or muffled tones disappeared. I was using my upper lip to cover my gum like I do with my lower lip to cover my teeth. I did have some note issues and it all felt very unfamiliar so I had to slow down. I could also play notes in tune that I usually struggle with but tonguing got weird and I was making mistakes that I don't normally make, just missing notes completely. Though any distraction causes me to make lots of mistakes.

I am no where near being ready to play in public but I think that removing my upper denture in public would make me very self conscious. I certainly don't have money for implants and I have had an upper denture so long that might not even be a possibility any more.

 

[Ivan]

I am no where near being ready to play in public but I think that removing my upper denture in public would make me very self conscious

It's early days, and given that most players cope with a full set of teeth, you probably will too

Could you practice whilst swapping the upper denture in and out? That may give you an idea of how you need to adjust your embouchure with the denture in to create to same tone

 

[Veggie Dave]

I have been trying to work on my tone as many of my notes are thin especially anything octave C and above. I also have a problem with biting and sending my middle G and G# off into overtone hell.

You obviously already know what you're doing wrong, which is the big part of the battle already won.

I don't think the dentures have anything to do with the issue you're having. Removing them simply proved that you were right; that you're biting and need to relax. I think the thing that isn't obvious when you first start to really look at your emboucher is that the pressure you want comes from the side of your mouth (cheek muscles) rather the top and bottom (lips).

Your mouth wants to make an 'ooh' (rhyming with you) shape - kinda like Trump's mouth - which isn't quite what you'd think you were aiming for when you first read so many of the emboucher tutorials.

Also, make sure you're tuning your sax properly. The biting could be a side effect of an instrument that's tuned flat and you're constantly trying to lip up the notes to the correct pitch.

 

[Hoosierken]

I worked this evening on trying out different ways of playing, upper denture in and out, my old way with top teeth on MP, lip out, even took off the pad on top. The only definite thing I can say is that I managed to bite my upper lip into a pinch pretty bad. I was also all over the place with tone and made way more mistakes than usual. Even struggled to start low notes.
I can see that I am in a period of experimentation to try to fix some pretty daunting problems. I have concentrated for so long, working on playing the correct notes and at as close to the correct BPM as possible I let tone and control slide. Now I have to catch that part up. Speed and accuracy don't count for much unless it also sounds good. I made a few recordings and I am going to have to drill down to just what I need to record to mark progress. Recording too much is useless and too little just as bad. I still struggle with any distraction causing me to make a lot more errors and recording is a big distraction.

 

[Veggie Dave]

Your upper teeth should be resting lightly on the mouthpiece/mouthpiece patch. If they're not, and it sounds like they're not, make sure you have your strap set correctly so that it's taking all the weight when the mouthpiece is in your mouth. There are also two basic thicknesses of mouthpiece patch - changing that makes a big difference. You wouldn't think so, but it does.

Set your sax height on the strap so that it swings perfectly into your mouth. Pull the sides of your mouth inwards lightly and gently blow a note somewhere in the middle of the sax's range. If you need to, firm the outside of your mouth a little more but don't move your jaw, don't push your lips onto the 'piece or reed and try again. Forget about recording just for the moment, you've got enough to work on without throwing another task into the mix.

Oh, regarding sax strap length - if you set the length sat down and then stand up to play, you will have to change the strap length - and, obviously, vice versa - otherwise you'll be pushing your mouth to the 'piece rather than the 'piece naturally coming to you.

 

[LostCircuits]

Double lip embouchure works fine except for soprano. Actually it works for soprano as long as you play sitting down and don't have to support/stabilize the instrument with your teeth. I developed a "bad habit" for it when I went through orthodontic treatment using Invisalign braces and now I have to force myself to use my teeth again. It's a slight difference in tone but a big difference in "perceived tone", i.e. how you hear yourself.

But the main thing is, play the way you are most comfortable with, that's the only way you can start "actually playing" instead of limping along.

 

[Hoosierken]

Your upper teeth should be resting lightly on the mouthpiece/mouthpiece patch. If they're not, and it sounds like they're not, make sure you have your strap set correctly so that it's taking all the weight when the mouthpiece is in your mouth. There are also two basic thicknesses of mouthpiece patch - changing that makes a big difference. You wouldn't think so, but it does.

Set your sax height on the strap so that it swings perfectly into your mouth. Pull the sides of your mouth inwards lightly and gently blow a note somewhere in the middle of the sax's range. If you need to, firm the outside of your mouth a little more but don't move your jaw, don't push your lips onto the 'piece or reed and try again. Forget about recording just for the moment, you've got enough to work on without throwing another task into the mix.

Oh, regarding sax strap length - if you set the length sat down and then stand up to play, you will have to change the strap length - and, obviously, vice versa - otherwise you'll be pushing your mouth to the 'piece rather than the 'piece naturally coming to you.

This brings up another issue. If I let the sax just hang from the strap the bow will naturally try to go off my right side. I have tried holding it in front and then it rests against my front. My head position seems to be too lowered. Trying to hold the sax away causes much of its weight to rest on my thumb and it becomes sloppy and makes it more difficult to hold firmly to play.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Adjust the length of the sling so that you can blow a C# no hands. Play it there. It's possible to play the full range of the saxophone without using thumbs.
It's much easier if you do use your thumbs but it lets you know how little your thumbs need to do.