Saxophones Eastman ETS 852 DS

[Guenne]

Hello!

I've received an Eastman 52nd Street Tenor (with DS mechanism) today to try it for a week.
If I like it, I can keep it - or return it without problems if not.

I had the first version of the horn, and as far as I remember I wasn't that impressed, and I sold it after a few months.
Hearing all the bla bla on youtube or elsewhere about the horn I was tempted not to try it - I'm less interested in how a horn "sounds", it sounds the way you blow.
So, just took it out of the case and played for an hour.
I'm not a real friend of Taiwanese or Chinese horns, never tried one that didn't feel bulky, felt strange keywise or did anything good that my Yanagisawa TWO20 cannot do.

So it was more like - ok, there aren't many shops where you can try the horn, take the chance.

I must admit that my first impression is really good. Switching from my Yanagisawa, there is not stretching or bending the fingers, everything is where you expect it to be.
As an information - I have rather small hands.
Intonation is fine, nothing to change or get used to it compared to the Yani.
Switching from the Yani it's a bit darker when I'm playing it, playing in the palm keys it feels less "narrow".

To sum it up, I'm almost shocked how good it feels to play. Yes - €4790,- ("My" price) is crazy for a Chinese horn. On the other hand - it does not feel worse that the Selmer Supreme I recently had to try, and this would have been €9900,-.

So, if you have questions, please feel free to ask

Cheers, Guenne

 

[Eddy Van Damme]

Hi Guenne,

I just test drove an Eastman ETS 850 and was so impressed I almost bought it on the spot. It was light, responsive, easy to play in tune across all the registers. I don't know how I got this idea, but I thought they were American horns, and the salesman did nothing to correct my misconception. When I got home I started reading up on them and found out they are 100% Chinese. The €4500 price tag suddenly seemed out of all proportion. Especially bearing in mind the resale value. I live in Spain. Here, anything that's not Yamaha, Yanagisawa, or Selmer, is hard to sell. So bearing in mind this is roughly the same price as a Yamaha 82Z, which is as dependable as a Scania truck, as strong as a shire horse, and guaranteed to hold its value, I'm afraid my money stays with the Japanese.

 

[Guenne]

@Eddy Van Damme:
Same here in Austria. As soon as you walk out the shop with a taiwanese horn it's worth half the price.
On the other hand - if you own the factory and have skilled workers it costs money.
An if it works for Yamaha in Indonesia it works for Eastman in China to build quality horns.

Funny - the alternative to the Eastman (as a present for myself - I'm getting 60 in July) would be a 82z.
My shop would remove the laquer on the body for free, as I like unlaquered horns and they don't have one in stock. Yamaha will raise their prices in the next months, so if I'd order one, it would be 5% more expensive.
Not that I couldn't deal with it after a few days of playing, but what I noticed with the 82zs is, that they get a bit sharp on high C (and up, but I don't remember that).

 

[Eddy Van Damme]

Check out this horn in England: Yamaha 82Z, unlacquered.

Yamaha YTS-82z Custom, UL, Tenor Saxophone. New - West Yorkshire Woodwind

Yamahas top professional horn. Condition: Great used condition. Age: 2012 The 82z and 875 EX range of saxophones from Yamaha are an outstanding option if you are looking for a reliable professional level horn that matches fantastic ergonomics with wonderful expression of...

westyorkshirewoodwind.co.uk

For the price of a Ryanair flight, you'll save yourself the heartache of unlacquering a brand new sax.
I knew the predecessors of this business, the Woodwind Exchange, and they were really good, so I can vouch for them.

 

[Eddy Van Damme]

PS, there's a problem with the thumbnail. It shows a second hand horn, the one advertised is new.

 

[Guenne]

For the price of a Ryanair flight, you'll save yourself the heartache of unlacquering a brand new sax.

Thank you, but importing from GB to EU is not a good idea these days I think.
I'd get the UL versions here somehow, but I'm not sure if I want to. I had the chance to play the 82z ulwof - the unlaquered with no high F#, and it did not convince me to buy it. At least not the one I tried.

You are right, unlaquering a new horn is a bit silly, it's just that they offered it to me.

 

[Guenne]

No one playing one of these or having thoughts after testing?

Here's the DS Mechanism:

View: https://youtu.be/mt7r0IhQFbE

 

[Stephen Howard]

Is that it? Just wider key feet?

 

[Guenne]

Is that it? Just wider key feet?

Je ne sais pas.

What I can say is that it feels good.
What I also can say is that I'm very happy about sceptic statements that make me return the horn

Quote:

DS – Mechanism
The DS Mechanism is inspired around the concepts used in the high end professional flute industry. Saxophones have always relied on either adjusting screws or compressed materials such as felt and cork to regulate the mechanical articulation of the keywork. The DS model uses a series of thicker paddles with very thin silencing materials between them to articulate the mechanism. This allows for adjustments to stay stable and firm for players. So why don’t more saxes use this? The DS mechanism also relies on a higher end caliber of tone hole manufacture and padding technique. These require much more time and effort. Thankfully, as part of the 2nd Generation improvements done to the 52nd Street horns back in 2020, these improvements were already in place so that the DS mechanism could be added to these horns without issue.

 

[Stephen Howard]

It all sounds a bit 'markety' to me.
OK, yes, making the contact point between the foot of the key and the Aux.F bar will help to spread the load - which will result in less compression of the buffering material. But it won't be by very much at all given the dimensions involved. And it's not like this has ever really been an issue...unless you're using squishy cork as a regulation buffer. I mean, there were no such frills on the MkVI, and it's pretty much universally agreed that the feel of one in good condition was one of the best.
But whatever material you choose to use, it will eventually harden up and start to knock.

I can't quite see from the video but if they've made the Aux.F bar thicker/wider then that's going to add some stiffness - and that's worth having.
I have noted the claim about "a higher end caliber of tone hole manufacture" and will pay particular attention to that when one turns up on the workbench.

 

[Guenne]

if they've made the Aux.F bar thicker/wider

Here's what I've noticed (or my fingers):
Aux F# feels very good, High E is different.

 

[Guenne]

 

[Stephen Howard]

Are they using the same soldered-on tonehole rings as on the 52nd street? Only that didn't work out so well.

 

[Guenne]

Are they using the same soldered-on tonehole rings as on the 52nd street? Only that didn't work out so well.

I'm not sure.
But only the right hand has rolled toneholes.

 

[Stephen Howard]

I'm not sure.
But only the right hand has rolled toneholes.

Lemme guess - it's to increase the depth of tone at the lower end while preserving the clarity of the upper. Or something like that.
From a purely technical perspective it would be better to have the rolls on the top end.

 

[Guenne]

Lemme guess - it's to increase the depth of tone at the lower end while preserving the clarity of the upper. Or something like that.

I've started uploading files to a set on hearthis I called "2 buy or not 2 buy.."
I don't now right now.

2 buy or not 2 buy

Listen to all uploads of 2 buy or not 2 buy by www.saxmitmusik.at on hearthis.at

hearthis.at

 

[Stephen Howard]

I've started uploading files to a set on hearthis I called "2 buy or not 2 buy.."
I don't now right know.

2 buy or not 2 buy

Listen to all uploads of 2 buy or not 2 buy by www.saxmitmusik.at on hearthis.at

hearthis.at

I'd say you're a capable-enough player to judge what's hot and what's not. Once you've decided that you like the way a horn feels and plays it really only boils down to the price and the build quality. And the competition, of course.

 

[Guenne]

I'd say you're a capable-enough player to judge what's hot and what's not

Yes, I can do that. The horn plays very good for me, better than the tons of taiwanese horns I tried in the past.
But I tend to rely on feelings. So if someone has pros or cons, it's of help.

The Yani for instance is the perfect horn for me in terms of how it feels, and it's ultra durable.
But it always sounds like there is a compressor on, even when it's not.

The Dallhammer is a wonderful horn for playing older stuff, it's also harder or almost impossible to make it sound harsh.
But there's less feedback, less tone separation.

So what I'd like to learn is if there's something that offers all. For my musical career I could use the music school's YTS 275. I've learned that when people like what you do, they ask you what type of Selmer you play

 

[Stephen Howard]

So what I'd like to learn is if there's something that offers all. For my musical career I could use the music school's YTS 275. I've learned that when people like what you do, they ask you what type of Selmer you play

I have no answer.
All I can tell you is that the span of time from my deciding that I'd like to change up my old YTS-23 to finding something that hit the spot was about ten years. I got to play a huge array of horns on a weekly basis. Some were great, many were nice - plenty were average. But none of them really 'slapped me in the face'. And it turned out that the reason I wasn't able to find such a horn is that it hadn't yet been made (or it cost £8K+).

If you're lucky you'll find that the horn of your dreams is well-built. You buy it, play it and that's that. Sometimes it goes that the horn isn't quite so well put together - and you have to spend some money on tidying it up. It shouldn't be that way - but it is. If that's a worry for you then you're better off sticking with the big-name brands and maybe compromising on what's important to you tonally.

I haven't seen a DS - but given what I found on the 52nd Street I'm prepared to bet a pint or two that there'll be a few corners cut. Might be pleasantly surprised....but I tend to find that if a manufacturer is a bit lax on the details on one model, there's a fair chance they'll do the same with another.

 

[Guenne]

Lemme guess - it's to increase the depth of tone at the lower end while preserving the clarity of the upper. Or something like that.

According to my friend who works in the store in Vienna that sells Eastman, Bob Mintzer was the factor to have rolled toneholes on the lower stack and straight ones on the upper (he had a call with someone at Eastman).
I don't care about, I once had a Tenor Madness horn that had rolled toneholes (I think real rolled toneholes), but not on the palmkeys. And AFAIR there's also been something on the Adolphe Sax anniversary alto I once owned, where some holes were rolled. They all played well