Rock 'n Roll Saxophone

[thomsax]

and we had a lot of fun back in the day!

I'm a little bit envious of all of you that were playing when rock & roll was young. Seems to bee easier back then. Although there are some good players that regret thier career choice. Big Walker teach young blues players/aspiring players to get a good education so ..... . It's different with rockers. Big cigars, drinks, gourmet food .....

View: https://youtu.be/vEt1LyC9dDw?si=K9rnbOTGa4yFh7Lg

 

[John Laughter]

I'm a little bit envious of all of you that were playing when rock & roll was young.

We had so many Top 100 hit records (of all styles) which featured a sax solo or a sax instrumental so we had constant inspiration to practice and join a teen band. I started playing in 56 (7th grade band) and the hits were on the jukeboxes, airwaves and movies. I would buy the 45rpm and tried to play every note by ear. And when your teen band played for a sock hop and the kids really liked it....well that did it!

 

[thomsax]

We had so many Top 100 hit records (of all styles) which featured a sax solo or a sax instrumental so we had constant inspiration to practice and join a teen band. I started playing in 56 (7th grade band) and the hits were on the jukeboxes, airwaves and movies. I would buy the 45rpm and tried to play every note by ear. And when your teen band played for a sock hop and the kids really liked it....well that did it!

To learn R&R songs by ear have changed over the years. You learned from a 45rpm 7 inch, I used a reel to reel recorded from the radio (our gramophone didn't have RCA or Din connection). Today I use the computer. The guy up in the north that bought your books used the CC radio/player to learn and to record what he had learned. The Rock & Roll sax player is often self-learned/autodidact. Many ways to learn R&R. Also in the dna of R&R.

"Sock Hop", I had to look it up. Today we can play for "Rock Your Socks" ("Rocka Sockarna") but that's a complete different thing.

 

[John Laughter]

Many ways to learn R&R.

Like many others I would go to town and hang outside of the bars and nightclubs and listen to the bands. A lot of live bands playing rock and R&B in those years. Many ways to learn.

 

[John Laughter]

"Sock Hop", I had to look it up. Today we can play for "Rock Your Socks" ("Rocka Sockarna") but that's a complete different thing.

 

[John Laughter]

The guy up in the north that bought your books

Tell him thanks!!

 

[thomsax]

Like many others I would go to town and hang outside of the bars and nightclubs and listen to the bands. A lot of live bands playing rock and R&B in those years. Many ways to learn.

You live in Rock & Roll Saxophone land. It's where it started and you have the tradition. I still try, at age of 68, travel for just to say "Hi" and have a a talk with R&R saxophone players. The trouble is that we venue places and festivals have been reduced.

So how to keep Rock & Roll, with the vanishing genre/style that is called Rock & Roll Saxophone, a live?

Help other to form groups that play in the Rock & Roll style.
To support and help the groups with tips so we can take some steps forward. Small gigs/concerts at street festivals, an afternoon in the park, kafés, pubs ..... but also to form a song-list, .... .

Today it's possible to have a conductor, teacher .... in USA and the band is playing somewhere in Sweden. Once or twice/year they meet face to face , otherwise it's over internet once or twice/month.

Rock & Roll Saxophone is not so complicated:

Learn to love to play in concert A and E.
Accept and understand the electric guitar.

Books, VHS, DVD's, internet ... are tools for Rock & Roll (Saxophone).

 

[thomsax]

Johnny "Guitar" Watson; "Looking Back". Perfect pubrock song. Dr Feelgood recorded this songs as well. No sax on Dr Feelgood version.

View: https://youtu.be/nIzSo7FISDw?si=V6Q-vA75dKBCpBVb

 

[John Laughter]

You live in Rock & Roll Saxophone land. It's where it started and you have the tradition. I still try, at age of 68, travel for just to say "Hi" and have a a talk with R&R saxophone players. The trouble is that we venue places and festivals have been reduced.

I am 80 so I was there when it started. It was very much so back in the day and still is in some cities.

"Smooth Jazz" has been a large factor in recent years for many sax players, especially the younger ones. Since Clarence has passed away many players no longer hear the big roof raising Rock & Roll Sax sound. Music and times change. "Smooth Jazz" is fine. All styles have a lot to offer the people. But come on......Rock & Roll Sax has some high powered energy that the dancers and some bands realllly love


Likewise regarding concerts and clubs it depends on the area that one lives if you will hear a lot of old time blasting Rock & Roll Sax.

And in some cases it is a matter of finances. Delbert McClinton had a 4 piece horn section years ago with Don Wise on lead tenor. Joe Bonamassa normaly has a 3 piece horn section but came to Macon this month with no horns but had 3 female singers (duh).

Most local (Macon) club bands make $300-$400 a night so with a 3 or 4 piece band of drums, one or two guitars and bass they can't afford a sax some people say. But I say add a "good" Rock & Roll sax and you will hear the difference. I stay way busy so no complaints. My "wedding band" does much better dollar wise so no problem. I really enjoy both!

I moved from Atlanta to Macon back in the 80's for my wife's new job. I was told by several local musicians that Macon is a "guitar town" even though Otis, James Brown and Little Richard were from the area. 20,000 guitars playing Southern Rock and Blues in every club and concert and no saxes to be found on stage in this town. What a shame, not for me but for the crowds.

It is interesting because when I play my "old school" style the dancers appreciate it so there are audiences everywhere for some roof raising sax if we can just promote more everywhere.

They sure loved it in the 50's and 60's with the sax sound on every jukebox, the airwaves, Top 100 hits (both here and in the UK according to my research and free PDF file) and in the many bands. And the crowds can love it again! And they still do enjoy it in many locations.
Just glad I got the into it in 1956 during the heyday. I have had many fun times!! And still at it

 

[John Laughter]

Learn to love to play in concert A and E.
Accept and understand the electric guitar.

By the way, excellent point! Got to

 

[thomsax]

"Smooth Jazz" has been a large factor in recent years for many sax players, especially the younger ones. Since Clarence has passed away many players no longer hear the big roof raising Rock & Roll Sax sound. Music and times change. "Smooth Jazz" is fine. All styles have a lot to offer the people. But come on......Rock & Roll Sax has some high powered energy that the dancers and some bands realllly love

Five common styles in rock(sax); ballad, blues, soul, funk and reggae but I think we should add Rock & Roll as well. It's a style and not an umbrella name for using the saxophone in popular music. Even Clarence Clemons changed over the years. The solos "Jungleland", "Dancing In the Dark", "Waiting On A Sunny Day" .... are not so much Rock & Roll, l if you compared to his solo on "Born To Run". I like them all ... .

To have horns in a band means higher costs and more practical issues. Even on a low level, without any money involved, the horns have to go first. An a small venue place or at a local pub/kafé it a big difference to have a 8-piece band a 3- horn section compared to a 5 piece. More people and volume to handle. The synths, to play some horn lines, is maybe a progress to accept?

I'm going to fight for more high energy live Rock & Roll music with saxes/horns.

The Bleachers

View: https://youtu.be/bdogSzw5OGI?si=hJMvxykuN_MI3PeZ


Here is Jimmy Hall (Mobile, Alabama, Wet Willie, Southern Rock, harmonica, sax player and a great singer) playing songs that Delbert McClinton made famous. Horns as well on the stage.

View: https://youtu.be/SPikLeJBtq4?si=4km8JFVSTGrPIc-v

 

[John Laughter]

I'm going to fight for more high energy live Rock & Roll music with saxes/horns.

 

[thomsax]

What to do if you want to play Rock Sax and you don't have a band to play with? I know that there are many sax players out there who are keen on Rock Sax.

- If you need some instructions maybe you can find players that can help or to get in touch with players online. We are right now 5 players in a mail group that share ideas and recordings. Learn from each other.
- Go to open mics and jams. Can be sax players at Rock jams that you can play with.
- Start local Rock Sax meetings. Backing tracks or a small rhythm section?
- Start and play as a 3-horn section. Trp, ts and bs is pretty common in Rock. Instead of trumpet you can have two tenor saxes.
- If you don't have a band to play with, I think backing tracks are good alternatives.

Keep On Honking' !

 

[John Laughter]

Trp, ts and bs is pretty common in Rock. Instead of trumpet you can have two tenor saxes.

 

[thomsax]

Rock Sax or Rock & Roll Saxophone? I think Rock Sax a better collective name for Blues, R&B, Rock & Roll, Soul, Funk, Reggae ........ with sax(es).

Bobby Keys and Rolling Stones are a safe choice if you want to play Rock Sax. Many songs are timeless and cover a big span when it comes to age and skills/experience among musicians. When kafé- or pub owners heard that "Stones" songs were on the songlist the possibility to get a gig or just to play (for us who were not asking for money and brought our own food! ) increased.

I have played in 3-5 different groups and they all had one thing in common; the number of Rolling Stones songs, written by Jagger/Richards or covers, used to be high. We tried not to call us tribute or cover bands. It would be too insulting!

Bobby Keys tenor in Rolling Stones songs have followed me since the early 70's. "Stones" songs are fun to play and easy to fit in with the tenor sax. Bobby Keys sax is not overproduced. But I would like it more out in the front of the mix, like Clarence Clemons. Today it's easy to fix that! Here are songs I learned by ear and maintained over the the years. Always learned the songs in the key that they were recorded. But in the end it's the singer or guitar player that use to decide.



With sax/horns on the recordings:
Brown Sugar
Live With Me
Can't You Hear Me Knocking
Tumbling Dice
Miss You (I hate it, but the other guys liked it!)
Waiting On A Friend
Sweet Virginia
Honky Tonk Woman
I Got The Blues
Happy

Songs without sax/horns
Ain't too Proud To Beg
Shine A Light
Jumpin' Jack Flash
Symphaty For The Devil
Start Me Up

 

[John Laughter]

But I would like it more out in the front of the mix, like Clarence Clemons.

Likewise, Jr Walker was out front in the mix and that was the way he wanted it with enough treble to cut through. Many of the older recording put the sax solos out there in the mix like Lee Allen, Plas Johnson, Johnny Paris and so many more.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Rock Sax or Rock & Roll Saxophone

The OP and replies on page 1 gives some clues about the actual style so I think it is probably most accurate, at least for this thread, to think of 50s rock and roll, r&b , jump style.

Many of the older recording put the sax solos out there in the mix like Lee Allen

I believe in the early recordings at Cosimo's I think there were few mics to go round so for solos they had to step up to the vocal mic.

 

[thomsax]

The OP and replies on page 1 gives some clues about the actual style so I think it is probably most accurate, at least for this thread, to think of 50s rock and roll, r&b , jump style.

I believe in the early recordings at Cosimo's I think there were few mics to go round so for solos they had to step up to the vocal mic.

Yes, Rock & Roll Saxophone is fine with me. Even a slow R&B ballad ..... .

I think they just had one microphone to the one channel recorder (reel to reel). They placed the microphone infront of the guy who needed to cut through. After some years the recording equipment was improved to four microphones and a four channel reel-to-reel.

Back to Bobby Keys and Rolling Stones. Maybe the guys in Rolling Stones (Jagger and Richards) wanted Keys to be a bit back in mix. They recorded in Muscles Shoals and horns and saxes at Fame studios used to be produced loud and out in the front.

 

[John Laughter]

They placed the microphone infront of the guy who needed to cut through.

 

[thomsax]

Of course, Lee Allen had a distinct sound as well. Maybe natural loud? Maybe Pete Thomas can describe his sound better?

Cosimo Matassa started J&M Record Shop in a former grocery shop at the corner of North Rampart and Dumaine in New Orleans. Behind the shop there was a small room, 22 square meter, and in the room Coz Matassa started a recording studio called J&M Recording Service. No fancy recording equipment Matassa became a master of placing the musicians/instruments so they blended well. A studio plot instead of a stage plot?! But the piano was always in the middle. This small recording room was important to what we call the "New Orleans Sound". The did some hanky panky with the reel to reel , increased the speed, so when the record companies got the recordings it was harder for them to "copy" the recording. A song in Eb sounded as it was in E, Bb as it was in B? The piano was also tuned a little bit higher in the treble, so it would sound better (louder) on the recordings. Of course, all the good musicians were the biggest part to spread the New Orleans Sound all sound the world.

Mac Rebennack aka "Dr John" later explained The Cosimo's sound: "That was the start of what eventually became known as the New Orleans Sound with the guitar doubling the bass line, the baritone and tenor doubling the bass line, making it a real strong sound and playing around it. It got to be known as "The Cosimo Sound" but it was the musicians sound because they were playing it" told Dr John, John Broven in "Rhythm & Blues in New Orleans". Musicians like Lee Allen, Red Tyler, Earl Palmer, Huey Smith ..... played live recordings in the small studio and often nailed it at the first take. The weren't just excellent musicians and "surface effective" ..... they were also in general "cost effective", paid/hour. They generated lots of money to others.

I was wrong about Cosimo's recording equipment. He had four microphones and a one channel reel to reel. Not a four channel as I wrote earlier. So when Fats Domino recorded "The Fat Man" on December 10, 1949 it was four microphones and a one channel "recording machine" in the studio and four sax men as well: Herbert Hardesty, Clarence Hall, Joe Harris and Red Tyler. I wonder what Allen was doing that day?

Now back to Stones and saxes.