Saxophones Conn Alto Shooting Star Age

[CJW]

Hello Folks Campbell here from Christchurch, New Zealand I have a Conn Alto Shooting Start that I have owned for 40 years + (and it was not new when I bought it) with a very nice tone it has a serial number on the bottom of the horn 3973 or 3073 ( Fairly sure it is 3973, I would really like to know more about the history or age, etc I play it occasionally for fun and mucking around but have been fired up somewhat to do a little more from all the good work you have on here, will await some epistles of knowledge with bated breath!!

 

[thomsax]

I have just seen Shooting stars with six digits or five digits+a letter.

 

[CJW]

 

[CJW]

May be this helps?

 

[jonf]

Most Conn saxes from the latter 20th century have either a six digit serial number or a serial with a letter and numbers. However, there were a number of Conn branded saxes built in the early to mid 1960s with four digit numbers, something to do with the changeover from one factory to another. I guess this is what yours is. These were reputed to be better than other Conn saxes at around that time. Would be good to see a couple of pictures of the whole sax.

 

[LostCircuits]

It's made in Nogales in the early 1960s after Conn purchased Best Art or CoinArt and most likely is an early 50M. The person who is really knowledgeable about those is @JayeNM.

Those are very nice horns with almost no market value. Personally I have nothing but fond memories, played my first gig on one of those etc.

 

[turf3]

I believe this may be a Beaugnier design. Not sure from the limited photos. The exact history of the Conn altos from Nogales/Coin Art/Best Products/Vito/Beaugnier in that time period is murky. OP, can you provide some overall photos of the thing? A friend of mine has a similar (I think) Conn alto and although it's not much like a true Conn, it's a real nice horn.

 

[LostCircuits]

All features shown in the pics look identical to my 50M, mine had sn 7061

 

[skeller047]

@LostCircuits there are definitely some Beaugnier influences in that horn. Low Eb/C spatulas and the low C key guard are identical to both my Beaugnier altos. The side F#, however, is not. So I suspect that these were built from a mishmash of available parts.

The ‘60s were an interesting time. Lots of orphans and out-of-wedlock kids, and saxophones too…

 

[CJW]

I will post some pics when I get it back thanks for the extremely helpful advice 🙂

 

[LostCircuits]

@LostCircuits there are definitely some Beaugnier influences in that horn. Low Eb/C spatulas and the low C key guard are identical to both my Beaugnier altos. The side F#, however, is not. So I suspect that these were built from a mishmash of available parts.

The ‘60s were an interesting time. Lots of orphans and out-of-wedlock kids, and saxophones too…

Steve, do a search on the "other forum" for "7061" and read post #2

But yes, in essence, the 50M is a Vito-Kenosha model from what I know which explains the Beaugnier lineage.

 

[skeller047]

Steve, do a search on the "other forum" for "7061" and read post #2

But yes, in essence, the 50M is a Vito-Kenosha model from what I know which explains the Beaugnier lineage.

Thanks - that explains a lot. Beaugnier (well, Vito really) shipped parts to the Kenosha plant to be assembled there, as a way to avoid import duties on musical instruments. By the time Conn got involved and Vito moved production to AZ and MX, Vito was moving on to Japan, and later, Taiwan.

Lot of muddy waters in musical instrument companies in the 1960s through 1980s - mergers and acquisitions, and it’s very confusing. But any horn made by Beaugnier, or from Beaugnier parts, is likely to be a great player.

 

[LostCircuits]

Thanks - that explains a lot. Beaugnier (well, Vito really) shipped parts to the Kenosha plant to be assembled there, as a way to avoid import duties on musical instruments. By the time Conn got involved and Vito moved production to AZ and MX, Vito was moving on to Japan, and later, Taiwan.

Lot of muddy waters in musical instrument companies in the 1960s through 1980s - mergers and acquisitions, and it’s very confusing. But any horn made by Beaugnier, or from Beaugnier parts, is likely to be a great player.

+1

 

[JayeNM]

It's made in Nogales in the early 1960s after Conn purchased Best Art or CoinArt and most likely is an early 50M. The person who is really knowledgeable about those is @JayeNM.

Those are very nice horns with almost no market value. Personally I have nothing but fond memories, played my first gig on one of those etc.

Yes, here's what's goin' on here. And it pops up from time to time.

That serial # makes zero sense in the Conn serial sequence. Because it's not a Conn serial # it's a Vito USA serial number.

That BODY was made while Vito owned Coin-Art facility in Nogales Arizona. The facility got in financial straits and Conn bought it, early 60's.
So Conn ditched their previous shooting star model 14M, which they had been making for decades in Elkhart (it was previously the Pan Am models there, no star engraving before 1957), and shifted all Alto second-shelf model production to their new facility in Arizona.

Since their 'new' factory was already tooled to make this model, Conn just ditched the 14M and 'adopted' the Vito design as their 50M.

Supposedly there were a bunch of horns half-fabricated there which had already been stamped with Vito USA serials, but yet to be engraved and assembled....so Conn used that stock until they ran out.

If you dig up a pic of the Vito, USA "special" model (not to be confused with the Vito FRance Special) you will see the former looks exactly like the 50M.

(Indeedy - IOW - the much-maligned Shooting Star alto...is actually based off of a Beaugnier, France design. Not related to a Conn Elkhart design at all.
Who'd'a thunk it ?)

Note also that these 4-digit ones had a tendency to go brown in lacquer hue over the years, due to the lacq Vito used....which the later-produced ones where Conn used their own lacquer formula, did not, generally speaking.

An early 60's, USA-made in Nogales model 50M, with a Vito serial number, basically.