Beginner Should a synthetic reed pass a pop test (seal)

[eb424]

Merry xmas one and all and early new year blessings,

should a synthetic reed pass a pop test or will the material not seal against the mouthpiece as cane does... might they might still need a rub over with wet and dry....

Thanks in advance..

Eddie

 

[MikeMorrell]

I've no idea. I've know about the 'pop test' but TBH, I've never ever done one. I mostly just listen to how a (cane) reed sounds and how responsive it feels. I once tried out a few synthetic reeds but I eventually (and narrowly) decided to stick with cane.

Over the years, I've learned - just a bit - how to work (some) cane reeds to my liking. I have no idea whether you'd ever have to 'work' synthetic reeds or how this could be done.

 

[Wade Cornell]

There are a number of reasons why a "pop test" may not work due to the reed or the mouthpiece. It's not a good idea to sand most synthetic reeds, although there are a few which specify that it's OK.

The real test is how it plays not a pop test. If it's too stiff and OK to sand that particular synthetic (according to the manufacturer's blurb) then try it (after learning where to sand to not KILL the reed). The pop test only lets you know that the table of the mouthpiece is flat and that the bottom of the reed can seal all the way to the tip. It doesn't tell you if the reed is too stiff, too soft, or how either the mouthpiece or reed play...and those are the more important factors. If the reed is too far back on the tip it won't seal even if everything else is perfect.

Lastly, it's highly unlikely that sanding the bottom side of any reed will improve the seal as you're not likely to get it perfectly flat and the tendency will always be to take more off the edges than the middle, which will of course just make it worse.

There is a tool used for scraping cane reeds called a "reed geek" which is flat and won't necessarily take more off the sides, but once again is it going to work for a synthetic? And more importantly does it matter when how it plays is the only real factor to test for.

 

[Phil]

Just play it
The pop test is as likely to damage a reed as it is to diagnose anything.
If it plays right leave it be.

is it fitting right with the lig? Sometimes they don't have as good of contact as cane because less material...thinner.

but again, just play it if you like it.

 

[jazzdoh]

Fiberreeds can be adjusted as easy as cane but I wouldn't mess with Legere's you could quite easily ruin it.
If it sounds good then don't worry about the pop test.

 

[eb424]

Thanks all.. it is a fiber reed 2s plays great up top struggle a bit bottom b an c.. i was just opening another cane reed to compare and thougt id ask. I was told it wss better to sand a cane reed briefly on a bit of 1200 grit wet and dry...

 

[Wade Cornell]

Thanks all.. it is a fiber reed 2s plays great up top struggle a bit bottom b an c.. i was just opening another cane reed to compare and thougt id ask. I was told it wss better to sand a cane reed briefly on a bit of 1200 grit wet and dry...

Cane reeds can certainly be sanded, but I'd never just attack one without having a reason. Having that reason means first trying it out, then if not satisfied KNOWING what the problem is and what to do to fix it. There are lots of videos and tip around on this subject.

The Fiberreed is an excellent synthetic, that can be sanded, but I'd highly recommend against doing that for the same reasons stated above for cane. If you don't know why you're sanding it or where will give the effect you want you're only going to make it worse...That I can guarantee!

I'm guessing that you're fairly new to playing sax, so based on that I'd recommend the following: Only use the fiberreed as is. It's consistent, so you will get used to it and have that one aspect that is constant. If you switch to cane it's usable life is short and each one is different. New players are challenged with many things that they need to concentrate on and improve. Having the reed consistent is a MAJOR advantage. If it plays for you persist with it.

 

[DavidUK]

Plus... if you do scrape or sand a reed ramdomly, and it works, how will you ever repeat what you did?

Best just to find one which works out of the box if you don't know what you're doing.

I'd have no idea where to start with sanding or scraping. That's why I've tried a load of single reeds, some bought, some inherited (new) with horns purchased, until I was happy.

 

[eb424]

Im quite happy with cane use green java 2 - 21/2 or rigotti gold jazz 2 1/2 but wanted to try synthetic again. I tried a legere but didnt get on with them. Ive been playing tenor for around 2 1/2 years so still a beginner. I bought a reed geek as i had a bad box of cane reeds but always just rub the face of the reed on 1200 grit before playing unless the reed is unplayable..then what have you got to lose... i like the fibre reeds but wasnt sure re the pop test...

 

[jazzdoh]

There is a section in the the book "The Art of Saxophone Playing" by Larry Teal it covers how and where to adjust your reeds so as to make them more playable, it's an excellent book relating to all parts of playing.
Don't worry so much about the pop test go more on how it plays and sounds.
I honestly can't tell you when I last did a pop test on any of my mouthpieces and reed setups.

 

[eb424]

Lol...i got frustrated..ive been playing for about 21/2 years. Ive been through the mpce , vintage vs modern sax, reeds and finally found a set up i liked tj raw ( 10m for back up well i never really sorted out the vintage vs modern ) 10m fan metal robusto series 1 and vandoren green java2 or 2 1/2. Happy days no more saxophone madness...then when the reed gave out i took another from the box no good, another no good..so here I am another box of green javas, reed geek at hand having a synthetic vs cane reed crisis which bought up the question of whether they seal against the table and whether stepping up to a 2 medium would make the low notes blow easier.. sound wise i find it difficult to tell them apart...oh for an easy life.... does anyone teach the drum.. ( disclaimer "no offense to anyone who plays the drums and construes that im implying that they are easy" intended...

 

[mizmar]

.then when the reed gave out i took another from the box no good, another no good..so here I am another box of green javas, reed geek at hand

seems to me, most people have about a reed holder's worth of reeds in constant circulation and when adding a new reed "bring it online" with one ritual or another to get it to sealed up and settled in. Going "I'll find one reed in a box or two, and play that" seems to me to be a little unusual for cane reeds. Unless you have a very specific technique or are very unlucky... most reeds in a box work.

 

[Phil]

The people who complain the most about reeds generally have messed up mouthpieces. Another bonus of a really well made piece is that most reeds work with very limited fuss.

 

[eb424]

Im not sure whether i should take offense tbf. I didnt bring anything online only the question of whether a synthetic reed pops i dont usually do a pop test. The mpce is fine and played great with the first java green...ooh maybe that one was faulty and the rest of the box was ok..

 

[6441]

I keep trying different reeds but usually gravitate back to one or two kinds. I tried a pop test to figure out what it was, but I tend to agree with what was said:

The real test is how it plays not a pop test.

Just play it

What I do find that varies with each type is the ease of playing high or low notes.

 

[MikeMorrell]

One point I don't think has been mentioned yet is finely adjusting the position of the reed and ligature on a mpc. I've posted a link to this (old) pdf a couple of times over the past years. Not because it solves all 'reed problems' but because it helped me realize that I could influence the 'playability' and tone of a reed simply by adjusting its position and/or that of the ligature on the mpc (by mm).

 

[Phil]

It wasnt personal. It was a comment about mouthpieces and people were talking all kinds of issues with cane and multiple adjustments. Even if ainsaid your mouthpiece is out of adjustment...which I didnt, I wouldn’t expect someone to make it a personal issue. Its not like I said you’re out of adjustment.

i simply stated a sidebar about reed problems.

 

[6441]

Yes, one might want to experiment a bit with that, to make sure to position is optimised. I moved a desk lamp to a place where I can see what I'm doing when I put the reed on the mouthpiece.

 

[jazzdoh]

To answer your opening post, yes they do seal I've just tried my FL mouthpiece with Fl lig with Fiberreed and Legere and it sealed fine, not that long ago you were having problems with your ligature on the 10mFan metal mouthpiece maybe this is your problem, you were using a BG which you removed the inserts if this is the one you are using then maybe its not doing its job correctly, a poorly fitted lig will not give the best results, also bear in mind many synthetics are of a thinner profile than cane so this might be the problem also.
I would also say that finding a right for you synthetic is a process and it could take a few purchases to find the right one.

 

[eb424]

with apologies Phil my previous post missed out the smiley wink face.... and was meant very light heartedly about the trials and tribulations of being a beginner and thinking you had found your set up.. Well spotted jazzdoh I even sorted that and now have the right lig and a choice of 2... Honestly I just didn't know if a synthetic reed would seal the same as a cane reed....