Martin C Melody Restoration

[jtd]

Just found your post after trying to find info on a Martin C melody. Fantastic work. You replied to my post, on another site, about the Octave key lifter that had broken off of the hinge tube. Your progress photos show just about all except a straight on shot showing the whole body/neck works. Would there be anyway to share some pics from front/top and both sides so I could see how the whole mechanism works. I have only worked on articulating mechanisms so I am too dumb to figure it out. The sax is the same as yours. although way uglier brass. Also who knows what else I will find. I have found too many bad soldered tone holes in the past. Thanks for any help. Jeff

 

[PigSquealer]

Just found your post after trying to find info on a Martin C melody. Fantastic work. You replied to my post, on another site, about the Octave key lifter that had broken off of the hinge tube. Your progress photos show just about all except a straight on shot showing the whole body/neck works. Would there be anyway to share some pics from front/top and both sides so I could see how the whole mechanism works. I have only worked on articulating mechanisms so I am too dumb to figure it out. The sax is the same as yours. although way uglier brass. Also who knows what else I will find. I have found too many bad soldered tone holes in the past. Thanks for any help. JeffView attachment 24820

 

[jtd]

Perfect! Thanks so much PigSquealer. I was having a hard time figuring the angle of the broken neck lifter piece to the body octave closer lever. I guess the body octave key lever(right hand side of your picture) has to be just above the pad when thumb key is not depressed. That is what was throwing me. I'm somewhat spatially challenged .I look forward to learning more from watching your posts and more on this site. Jeff

 

[PigSquealer]

Perfect! Thanks so much PigSquealer. I was having a hard time figuring the angle of the broken neck lifter piece to the body octave closer lever. I guess the body octave key lever(right hand side of your picture) has to be just above the pad when thumb key is not depressed. That is what was throwing me. I'm somewhat spatially challenged .I look forward to learning more from watching your posts and more on this site. Jeff

As luck would have it I have another on hand and just took some additional pictures.

This is with the thumb octave key touch in the neutral position. There should be a slight gap between the cork and the neck key halo. Space between the octave lever and body.

With the thumb octave key touch depressed. The lever fully extended away from the body and a slight gap(red). This would be lifting the neck key halo fully open.

With G depressed the octave lever should fully retract to the body, or at least away from the halo. Neck key full closed.
At this point the body octave should be open.

Pay attention to the area circled in blue. This is part of the mechanism on the end of G. How this operates the octave mechanism also affects the pad height opening of the G key ! With the thumb octave touch depressed and G depressed the neck octave lever retracts (red) and allows the body octave to open (green). There’s a balancing act going on here. Fully understand the relationships well before making adjustments.

with both the thumb octave key and G depressed there should be free space in these areas (red). Body octave key open (green)

 

[PigSquealer]

With everything set correctly and the thumb octave off /neutral position. Press G. You should see the neck octave lever retract. The body octave key should stay closed.

 

[Littleboyblue]

Great job

 

[jtd]

PigSquealer, that is absolutely perfect. I knew well about the G/thumb relationship, but not in a case like this where I couldn't find anything clear on a fixed lever situation. I consider myself extremely fortunate to have found your posts. The pictures are great as well as the explanation. I am primarily a brass player in a rural Washington peninsula town that has found a second "calling" helping the local students and some of us old fart used-to-be players repair things. Nearest repair place is over an hour away over mountains and a bridge. Now going on 4 years and this was the first time, so far, that I just couldn't find anything. Now I just need to figure out to make the lever, which BTW your pictures are perfect showing the angles. I need to do things a little different now. Good thing I'm retired. Thanks again very much. I'll post pics if I'm happy with how it looks. I'm a kind of function over form dude, but this time I want it to look as close to original as possible rather than only work well.

 

[turf3]

PigSquealer, that is absolutely perfect. I knew well about the G/thumb relationship, but not in a case like this where I couldn't find anything clear on a fixed lever situation. I consider myself extremely fortunate to have found your posts. The pictures are great as well as the explanation. I am primarily a brass player in a rural Washington peninsula town that has found a second "calling" helping the local students and some of us old fart used-to-be players repair things. Nearest repair place is over an hour away over mountains and a bridge. Now going on 4 years and this was the first time, so far, that I just couldn't find anything. Now I just need to figure out to make the lever, which BTW your pictures are perfect showing the angles. I need to do things a little different now. Good thing I'm retired. Thanks again very much. I'll post pics if I'm happy with how it looks. I'm a kind of function over form dude, but this time I want it to look as close to original as possible rather than only work well.

I'd consider making your replacement arm, with a hole for the hinge tube, then trying it in the mechanism before soldering it down. You can temporarily fix it if you drill and tap a hole radially and put a wee screw, or maybe with a "gel" type cyanoacrylate glue (which you'll clean off thoroughly with acetone before soldering). When you confirm the exact angle is correct, scribe a couple lines on the hinge tube and the arm that you can use to align the parts after cleaning and fluxing and initial assembly. You'll have to work out how to fixture the parts before soldering. You won't be able to use fine tag wire like you would for soft soldering. Probably need a couple pairs of needle nose Vise Grips and a bench vise and some heavy weights to get it all secured right where you want it.

 

[PigSquealer]

It’s two parts. $10 tool.

DIY fix…
In a pinch for one time use. Cut some long lengths of coat hanger. Drill snuggly fitting holes for wire into a wood block. two on the right two on the left about an inch apart.
Bend the coat hanger in half making the bend like a square “U”of 1”. When installed the work should be about 3 to 4 inches above the wood. Start long and trim the wire down as necessary.
Fit the parts in position. Wire The parts to the coat hanger. This may take some fiddling as the wire will want to move. Review your arsenal supply if necessary. i’ve used clothespins, paper clips (The big Square spring type ) and alligator clips.
Use soft solder. The part doesn’t have that much stress on it.
Secure the apparatus to the work surface so it does not move / fall over. For fire protection cover the wood with a couple layers of tinfoil.

 

[PigSquealer]

Just made one as an example. It just needs to hold the part very solid for less than one minute.

 

[jtd]

Wow. Once again thanks for the info. Unfortunately I thought that was the way to do it, but I had hoped (beyond hope) that maybe there might have been an easier way. I have used those kind of clamps before but I usually ended up melting them. Although I haven't stuck metal, (do they even make hangers like that anymore?), wires into wood like that. Great idea, I've always used mag bases and home made pincher clamps -per machine-shop types. And love the pig. I might practice 3d printing that When you say soft soldering are you talking about low temp (like on a post?) I was under the impression that joining to the tube as well as any key-type pieces needed to be silver(hard) soldered, although I have used the different types of silver solder depending on proximity. Some folks I have talked to use the term "soft" for easy silver solder. Just making sure I don't misunderstand because it's a lot easier for soft solder. Got the tube piece lever with a 90ish bend towards to top done but I'm afraid I'm going to have to cut/fit pieces for the final lifter portion that angles down to the body then to the halo - BTW- thanks for that nomenclature. I just can't bend a piece down that far (per the pics). I've said it before and I'll say it again. Thanks for your help. It has reinforced my thoughts on the matter.

 

[PigSquealer]

Either type solder will work for this position. It’s a low stress part. Soft solder takes less heat. I don’t think it will fail.
For the part you’re trying to fabricate. You may have some luck using 5/32 plate. Drill a hole as turf mentioned. Draw and cut the shape out.
Heat it well where you need to make the bends. That will soften it. Bending will work harden it some. File to shape.
Currently if you have a piece of flat stock coming off the hinge tube. The vertical piece to the halo I would make as a pin joint. Drill a hole and insert a piece of round stock going north to the halo. Solder the fitting. Something like this below. Although I did turn / machine the end to fit the existing hole.

I’m guessing the original part was cast in brass.

 

[jtd]

That's what I was going to do. I didn't like the look of the bends, as well not being able to get a sharp enough angle down to the body to be able to engage the halo, so I've started over hard soldering the 90ish degree bends and then the +-15degree bend.
Turf3, I'm sorry I didn't reply to your thread, I missed it as it came up under PigSquealer's. Love Microsoft office(riggght), but that was exactly what I did except I was lucky enough to have a tight enough fit to not have to major tack the part to the tube.
Thanks to you guys for helping me learn some new thing on this. Although I really I would have had a part to follow. Oh well.

 

[jtd]

Well, here is the (almost) finished lever assembly. Just need to trim a couple long pieces and do somethings to make it look a bit better, and some cork here and there. It works just fine. Now if it will last.
I don't know HOW long it would have taken me without your pictures PigSquealer.

Many thanks to you and Turf3.

 

[PigSquealer]

Well, here is the (almost) finished lever assembly. Just need to trim a couple long pieces and do somethings to make it look a bit better, and some cork here and there. It works just fine. Now if it will last.
I don't know HOW long it would have taken me without your pictures PigSquealer.
View attachment 24894View attachment 24895

Many thanks to you and Turf3.

That’s a very respectable DIY patch job! At least you now have a playing instrument. Keep looking for a spare. You never know when one might pop up on eBay !

 

[.50cal]

I recently picked up one of these at a garage sale. The body is immaculate and the previous owner has repadded it. unfortunately it seems to have taken a swim in a river and is covered in mud with springs all rusted out. I'm working at getting the last three rods out but that may need some destruction unfortunately.
I'm wondering if anyone has a list of the size of springs I need to put back in this once its cleaned up?

 

[Stephen Howard]

I'm wondering if anyone has a list of the size of springs I need to put back in this once its cleaned up?

Your best best is to measure the existing springs (as best you can) and then buy a bunch of springs on and around those sizes. Failing that, you'll typically need a selection of springs in the 1-5 range. You might even need some in the larger 1/0-3/0 range.

Here's a list:

Needle Springs

10% Discount available on these items If you spend £100 excluding VAT on any mix of products displaying this message you will receive 10% discount on those items. To see how much more you need to spend to get this discount, see 'Discounting Information' near the bottom of your shopping cart.

windplus.net

 

[PigSquealer]

I'm working at getting the last three rods out but that may need some destruction unfortunately.

let the areas soak with a good application of rust buster. Try a little heat. Don’t be surprised if it takes several weeks to come loose. Just be patient.

I'm wondering if anyone has a list of the size of springs I need to put back in this once its cleaned up?

As mentioned above by Steve. Measure what you have.
Make a chart indicating the position of each spring(direction facing) and the pillar. Carefully extract the spring and measure what you can. You may also have some luck sizing to the hole in the pillar. This is largely a craftsman task. Final tension feel may need some adjusting.

What’s the SN# / year ?

 

[LostCircuits]

I recently picked up one of these at a garage sale. The body is immaculate and the previous owner has repadded it. unfortunately it seems to have taken a swim in a river and is covered in mud with springs all rusted out. I'm working at getting the last three rods out but that may need some destruction unfortunately.
I'm wondering if anyone has a list of the size of springs I need to put back in this once its cleaned up?

Two things: springs are cheap enough that you can get a bunch of assorted needle and leaf springs in various thickness/strength and you just need to cut them to the correct length, and in the case of leaf springs make sure you round the tip and bend it to allow the slip to move on the "equalizer" without catching or binding.

Stuck rods, if you know anybody with an ultrasonic cleaner, these sometimes work miracles.