SYOS

Saxophones Wood stone Sax's

kernewegor

Bon vivant, raconteur and twit
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cocks hill perranporth KERNOW
Just inadvertently found these whilst looking for thumb hooks for Allansto's thread....really look the business...until I worked out that 600 yen is actually more than a new Selmer Ref 54! anyone got one? must admit I've never heard of them before...http://www.wood-stone.jp/product-list/49

I think you left a few noughts off the price in yen!

I had a geek at the tenor sax prices and they run from 470,000 yen (£3068) through 580,000 yen to 600,000 yen (£3916)

I used this converter:

http://uk.advfn.com/p.php?pid=fxcalculate&action=convert&amount=13500&from=JPY&to=GBP&btn=Convert

Perhaps if I win the lottery - slim chance, I know. I've never bought a ticket...

On the other hand, if you do find any for 6oo yen, get me one, too!
 

Colin the Bear

Well-Known Member
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12,368
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Burnley bb9 9dn
Both thumb rests designed to give more resonance. Really? And silver alloy neck socket screws? Not sure how long they would last. Engraved by skilful craftsmen. How much? Sheesh! No Ta!
 
OP
Fraser Jarvis

Fraser Jarvis

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,859
I think you left a few noughts off the price in yen!
Ooops! yes, sorry ha! but at that price I really cant see people straying from Yamaha or Yanagisawa. its alright a grand or whatever for a BW, Barone, or something but doubt they will sell many of those at that price....I mean if your in the market for a new sax at that price point whatya gonna buy a Selmer ref 54.....or something you've never heard of for £100 more from the far east?
 

milandro

Well-Known Member
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2,489
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the Netherlands
I am happy to see here a critical approach to the Ishimori products.

Saxophones made in Taiwan (under unclear claims of Ishimori having DESIGNED a saxophone that appears to have no special design characteristics) and complete of few accessories of dubious efficacy.

I have been flamed elsewhere for daring to express criticising for their claims on their horns and their accessories.

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?171844-Have-you-tried-the-ishimori-Woodstone-new-vintage-tenor/page2
 

kernewegor

Bon vivant, raconteur and twit
Messages
1,779
Location
cocks hill perranporth KERNOW
Both thumb rests designed to give more resonance. Really? And silver alloy neck socket screws? Not sure how long they would last. Engraved by skilful craftsmen. How much? Sheesh! No Ta!
Really? I didn't see that bit.

If you were an instrument manufacturer, would you entrust your advertising to some drongo who wouldn't know a saxophone from a telephone? Does the manufacturer not approve the advertising copy before it goes out? Mad, mad, I tell you...

By the way, I've got a Deluxe Saxophone Strap by Gear4Music that fills out frequencies in the upper register and enables circular breathing to be achieved while simultaneously suppressing squeaks from insufficiently moistened reeds without prejudice to the owners right to remain silent in a court of law or anywhere else for that matter.

It's so good, you don't even have to blow - the strap does it for you. It's so efficient that if I have a problem lighting the sitting room fire, I put saxophone and strap in front of it and by the time I come back from the kitchen with a cup of tea the fire is roaring up the chimney.

If any instrument manufacturers are reading this, I could be persuaded take on their advertising. You know it makes sense!
 
OP
Fraser Jarvis

Fraser Jarvis

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,859
Interesting, so it's not Japanese then, but of Taiwanese manufacture....that seems a bit deceptive of them? think if I were buying another Taiwanese made sax I'd have no hesitation in getting another Barone...and save a couple of grand!
 

kernewegor

Bon vivant, raconteur and twit
Messages
1,779
Location
cocks hill perranporth KERNOW
I am happy to see here a critical approach to the Ishimori products.

Saxophones made in Taiwan (under unclear claims of Ishimori having DESIGNED a saxophone that appears to have no special design characteristics) and complete of few accessories of dubious efficacy.

I have been flamed elsewhere for daring to express criticising for their claims on their horns and their accessories.

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?171844-Have-you-tried-the-ishimori-Woodstone-new-vintage-tenor/page2
Here is the actual text on the Ishimori website - enjoy!

'...The Wood Stone New Vintage Tenor Saxophone

"Ishimori Woodinds has finally completed the Wood Stone tenor saxophone by combining their knowledge and experience of repairing saxophones which has been accumulated for half a century. This majestic tenor, features an incredible fast action and excellent feel and a super intonation. The sound characteristics are reminiscent on the great power and quality of a Selmer Radio Improved tenor and the incredible darkeness of an early 57 or 58xxx Selmer MK VI tenor. You can blow comfortably through the whole range but yet feel the back pressure of those old Selmers.

The Vintage Lacquer model is darker color, and adds the dark and rich overtones often found on the early Mark VI sound. This horn has NO high F# and this definitely adds greater qualities to the instrument.

This saxophone has a logo, Wood Stone on the bell. This means a Holy original saxophone. The Arabesque design on the bell brings premium accents.

Ishimori received a patent on the screw-fixed thumb rest, Wood Stone hard rubber thumb rest, which is attached on the saxophone. Also, the thumb rest uses quality hard rubber so it leads to resonance and quick response. The sound becomes warm and resonant.

This model has the Wood Stone thumb hook‡T. This hook has interspaced between a body and itself, which enhances resonance and makes it easier to control sound volume through the whole range and to control tone color. It can also improve the quality of the D, E and F sound which often become unclear.

The Wood Stone neck joint screw and lyre screw are attached to this saxophone. They use silver alloy for these screws. This can improve sound quality and make the sound softer.

The elegant engraving on the bell is designed only for this saxophone. This fascinating design is engraved elaborately by skilled Ishimori craftsmen.

The neck features a fantastic response and rich sound. It is modeled after the Selmer SBA necks however; Ishimori also makes use of our knowledge in the designing of this neck and it shows on every note you play.

Almost all the saxophones use glue to put together a body and a bell and this way can stop resonance. But they solder them in order for the saxophone to vibrate from the neck to the bell, which can improve sound volume. You can also find the Arabesque design on the ring of the body
...'
 

milandro

Well-Known Member
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2,489
Location
the Netherlands
Here is the actual text on the Ishimori website - enjoy!

'...The Wood Stone New Vintage Tenor Saxophone

"Ishimori Woodinds has finally completed the Wood Stone tenor saxophone by combining their knowledge and experience of repairing saxophones which has been accumulated for half a century. This majestic tenor, features an incredible fast action and excellent feel and a super intonation. The sound characteristics are reminiscent on the great power and quality of a Selmer Radio Improved tenor and the incredible darkeness of an early 57 or 58xxx Selmer MK VI tenor. You can blow comfortably through the whole range but yet feel the back pressure of those old Selmers.

The Vintage Lacquer model is darker color, and adds the dark and rich overtones often found on the early Mark VI sound. This horn has NO high F# and this definitely adds greater qualities to the instrument.

This saxophone has a logo, Wood Stone on the bell. This means a Holy original saxophone. The Arabesque design on the bell brings premium accents.

Ishimori received a patent on the screw-fixed thumb rest, Wood Stone hard rubber thumb rest, which is attached on the saxophone. Also, the thumb rest uses quality hard rubber so it leads to resonance and quick response. The sound becomes warm and resonant.

This model has the Wood Stone thumb hook‡T. This hook has interspaced between a body and itself, which enhances resonance and makes it easier to control sound volume through the whole range and to control tone color. It can also improve the quality of the D, E and F sound which often become unclear.

The Wood Stone neck joint screw and lyre screw are attached to this saxophone. They use silver alloy for these screws. This can improve sound quality and make the sound softer.

The elegant engraving on the bell is designed only for this saxophone. This fascinating design is engraved elaborately by skilled Ishimori craftsmen.

The neck features a fantastic response and rich sound. It is modeled after the Selmer SBA necks however; Ishimori also makes use of our knowledge in the designing of this neck and it shows on every note you play.

Almost all the saxophones use glue to put together a body and a bell and this way can stop resonance. But they solder them in order for the saxophone to vibrate from the neck to the bell, which can improve sound volume. You can also find the Arabesque design on the ring of the body
...'
Thanks, but I knew that already, I actually have commented several times this text on SOTW in the thread that I’ve quoted above.
 

Ivan

Undecided
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6,406
Location
Peeblesshire
The Japanese Govnt is trying to devalue the yen, so wait a decade or two and it might become a reasonable buy

Anyway milandro there's clearly no reason to flame you for valid criticism... were you attacked by Woodstone agents?
 

milandro

Well-Known Member
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2,489
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the Netherlands
The Japanese government has been trying that ( and to have its citizens simply spend more or to take more holidays........) , unsuccessfully, for ages.

I don’t know why the flaming and if there were other interests at work other than simply defending their own choices.

I have been at the receiving end of similar attacks also for my criticism of Tino Schucht claims that his thumb rest improves sound much in the same way ishimori do with theirs.

But then again there is a number of gizmos all claiming to be be the next best thing on the market after sliced bread.


These things and false claims cross me...

Like the several claimants to “ make” saxophones never shown being made or that they assemble better saxophone in France or Japan and recently in Belgium ( with Taiwnese made parts) than in Taiwan, where they make hundreds of thousands a year for many years now so they might just have got the hang of it.
 

Phil

Member
Commercial Café Supporter
Messages
568
Location
France
I'm with milandro on this one. Make a product, give it a catchy name, make sure to write volumes about the item and then slap an absurd price on it...don't forget to get dealers good margins and watch the customers run after it.

Resonant thumb rests my axe. ...Silver neck tightening screw? Get real.

All that is to draw your attention away from an eight hundred percent mark up.
 

altissimo

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,362
Location
leicester
so has anyone actually tried one of these saxes yet, or are you just criticising the advertising blurb?
in which case, you'll love the Yanagisawa brochure - dead link removed
which contains such gems as "..the thumb rest, made of brass, permits a more consistent tonal range"
and "The Baritone sustains a joyful sound from the neither regions"

I also spotted this on a mouthpiece website - "Powerful forces within the earth push against one another creating an upheaval of pressure and heat. That which existed is, in a moment in time, obliterated. This endless cycle brings about the potential for new formations of order. The Phil-Tone Rift delivers these possibilities to the alto saxophone player"
 
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tzadik

Member
Messages
340
Location
Friulandia, Italy
Don't know about the thumb rest.
But who tried the Schucht thumb hook did noticed a difference in the sound: all is reported in a SOTW thread.
(It's always) better to try personally a object, before starting say it doesn't "work".


--------
I think part of the manufactoring of that horn is still made in Ishimori workshop (in Japan). This to not share some secrets with the local taiwanese factories/suppliers.

Let's how it is close to a 57xxx/58xxx Mark VI. I hope they don't "copy" the average intonation tendencies of those vintage Selmer though.
 
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milandro

Well-Known Member
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2,489
Location
the Netherlands
My issue with Ishimori is not so much that the saxophone is good or not but:

1) they imply that they can put together a saxophone better than people in Taiwan

2) they charge an obscene mark up for doing so (and not showing any of this expensive assembling process)

3) they claim that their magic thumbrests improve the sonic quality, I don’t know why but this brings to mind the terms: preposterous and unsubstantiated bogus pseudo scientific claim, can’t imagine why !!

Beware of the shills
 
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altissimo

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,362
Location
leicester
according to this - http://www.wood-stone.jp/product-list/48 - the Woodstone alto is a modified YAS82Z made in collaboration with Yamaha, so that may explain the high price tag - a YAS82Z has a RRP of £3,248 according to sax.co.uk's website and the 500,000 yen price tag of the Woodstone is about £3,312

the claim about the thumb rest having less contact area and thus causing less damping of the instruments vibrations doesn't seem very likely, but Yanagisawa also make similar claims ("mounted with only 4 small points making contact with the body, the thumb hook has virtually no effect on the resonance of the instrument") - so you'd better take issue with them as well...

without actually examining any of their instruments, it's not possible to verify whether Ishimori Woodstone really can put together a saxophone better than people in Taiwan. Maybe if someone decides to stock their instruments over here, one of our correspondents might get to see one and report back...

Have you tried contacting Woodstone and raising these issues with them? Their reply might make amusing reading...
 
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