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Will I be a star bursting rockett or just fizzle out.

navarro

Senior Member
Messages
863
My Friday night jam session. (Not the one I got invited to participate in.) The keyboard man (leader) have to admit very proficient but seems to conjure everything up out of a computer, has said I am trying too complex a mix of tunes. (Round Midnight.) Okay I`m a newbie and will take advice from anyone.

So I produced `Autumn Leaves out of the Jamey Aebersold Jazz Book. (Easy to play version.) Thinking this is not a complex arrangement. I had hardly blown the first bar note E 4/4 time when he stopped me. and said you are going about this the wrong way.

Okay ever the willing student I was prepared to listen. Now here is the point I want to be enlightened upon, inadvertently I handed him the B flat score for tenor. First bar note A He then went on to mark on the wrong score the second bar note F then fourth bar note E 6th Bar note D then 8th Bar note C. He then said just play these and you will start to get the true feel of the tune, otherwise your timing will be totally out and we can not follow you.

I then said," but I thought that I picked up the rhythm and beat from the rhythm section?" At this point the drummer stepped in and said you are trying to improvise without knowing the basics. I have always been an experimenter and as far as I know kept within the chord symbol barriers. Maybe I push embellishments a little but this is a form of cover up when I know I have gone wrong. All in all what baffles me is how he arrived at those conclusions.

Unfortunately I was banished to the fools corner in the nicest possible way and did not get a chance to go into more detail with him.

Am I being to arrogant, or is this some kind of hint for me to sling my hook (not crook.) Regds. Bothered and Bewildered but not Bewitched. N.
 

Fraser Jarvis

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,910
Personally if i were you, a relative newbie that is, i wouldn't question the other more experienced musos even if you do think your right, just try to do what they ask...otherwise what you have will be a very short lived affair.
 

Tenor Viol

Full of frets in North Shropshire
Subscriber
Messages
5,940
Hmmm - you might have discovered that you know more theory than they do. Also, they probably have a 'house style' which they are comfortable with. Duck.
 

altissimo

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,354
If they can't play Round Midnight, they've no right to call themselves jazz musicians.. if they have to follow you then they really don't know what they're doing
Unfortunately, I've encountered this attitude a lot and so have many of my friends, what it comes down to is they don't want their complacent little bubble burst by someone who can play something they can't. If they're not up to the challenge, then they won't get very far as jazz musicians - jazz is all about rising to the challenge
It's a sign of a deep seated insecurity if they have to put other people down in order to make themselves feel superior. Don't let it get to you, if you can play the tunes as written and they can't, we know who's the better musician. Keep playing and try to find some people to play with who aren't going to be so stupid
 

navarro

Senior Member
Messages
863
Hmmm - you might have discovered that you know more theory than they do. Also, they probably have a 'house style' which they are comfortable with. Duck.
That had not crossed my mind T. Their house style is very much what I call `soft` lots of brush work from the drummer and the key board player is very allied to the blues scales, this could be because he really encourages vocalists. there is a lot of open mic and the vocalists are pretty well into the standards. Last night the vocs. were very bluesy `Lover Man` `Summer Time` etc. I am not belittling this music or indeed the singers. (I can`t sing} And I know the blues is the basis of it all. Suddenly a thought has occurred to me as I pen this reply. `Maybe their music is not for me.` However I will continue on this learning curve.) Regds . N
 

navarro

Senior Member
Messages
863
Thanks A . I must admit my first response to all this was `This is a bit strange` However I put my newbie hat back on and became their `Umble Servant.` You have alleviated one fear for me though, that many of your friends have suffered the same has dispensed to a degree the thought I was just being arrogant. best Regds. N.
 

navarro

Senior Member
Messages
863
Personally if i were you, a relative newbie that is, i wouldn't question the other more experienced musos even if you do think your right, just try to do what they ask...otherwise what you have will be a very short lived affair.
Thanks Frazer good advice and taken on board. Regds N.
 

MellowD

Lost In Theory
Messages
544
I have to admit that this is the part that strikes the fear of "insert preferred mechanism or belief system here" in me! I want to be able to play in a band (other than a woodwind band) at some point, and concerned about how to go about it, and how to blend in with the other band members.

Navarro - you have my admiration!

Mel
 

What

Member
Messages
314
I think it might be a problem of your playing styles clashing. It sounds like something that we might all have to deal when gigging with different groups. Chin up good sir, keep at it and don't let the blues give you the blues.
 

aldevis

Surrealist Contributor.
Cafe Moderator
Messages
12,124
Since leading jam sessions has been my regular thing for a while, in the past...
I can come up wit two theories, but please do not take offense: I never heard you playing, just suppositions.

1- You cannot play it properly. In this case maybe you put the very first note on the down beat of the first bar, and this drove everyone crazy.
It is supposed to be played like this:
1,2,3,4,1,the,fal,ling,LEAVES with "leaves" on the downbeat of the first bar. "Leaves" is usually an F for tenor.

2- They are young arrogant students (or graduated) of some really cool school. They don't really know what they are talking about, they think that chords are too 20th century. This theory is suggested by the fact that Autumn Leaves is usually played in concert G minor (1st chord Cm), concert Eminor (old real book key, 1st chord Am), or Cm (Stan Getz's key). In any case they must be able to play all of them, even without using that annoying iP***e on stage.

In both cases, the correct procedure would have been to get to the end of the song you requested to play, thanking you and moving to the next musician. Politely, without stopping the tune, without patronizing.
 

navarro

Senior Member
Messages
863
Since leading jam sessions has been my regular thing for a while, in the past...
I can come up wit two theories, but please do not take offense: I never heard you playing, just suppositions
Hi Al no offense taken I am ever the pupil.

Re-looked at the arrangement and I think what he was trying to tell me was look for a common pattern and use your 1,3 and 5th to begin a phrase re chords scales etc. I am ever the experimenter perhaps, I just strayed off the standard for a while and took his advice as an admonishment. Best Regards N.
 
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