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Saxophones Who could manufacture this?

Jose

Member
Messages
58
Someone could say me something about this horn? Said to me is a baritone and has no engravings anywhere, even brand and serial numer. Go from Bb to Eb. It´s similar to some evette-Schaffer non patented as I saw in saxpics.com but not identical.... It´s overhauled and I could buy it but I´m not sure if it´s a piece for players or for collectors.

Thanks in advance.

Jose baritono1.jpg baritono2.jpg
 

aldevis

Surrealist Contributor.
Cafe Moderator
Messages
12,125
Up to high Eb, but down to Bb... Does is have a double octave key?
 

kevgermany

ex Landrover Nut
Subscriber
Messages
21,947
Old horns like this can be great - or a great waste of money.
First thing to check is pitch - if it's high pitch, then it's not usable, as it won't play in tune with modern instruments. Either compare it to a modern bari, or tune one note on it (say low C) and see if it plays easily in tune throughout the range. If it's a high pitch horn, it'll get sharper and sharper as you go through the scale, then probably drop back into tune as you hit the second octave, then get sharp again.
Secondly check playability - feel of keywork, easy of play, pad sealing and so on. If it's got 2 octave keys, playability drops a lot - and it's clearly a really old horn.
Thirdly check price. Even though it's supposedly overhauled, don't pay too much.

As to age, given that it's got rollers, I guess between WWI and WWII, probably closer to WWI.

But - you may have a real bargain on your hands....
 

Jose

Member
Messages
58
No,it has no double octave key, and instead most baritones nowadays wich go up to F# this has not keys up to Eb only has D and Eb on the left hand and down goes to Bb as a lot of vintage baritones do, instead low A ones.
 
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aldevis

Surrealist Contributor.
Cafe Moderator
Messages
12,125
No,it has no double octave key, and instead most baritones nowadays wich go up to F# this has not keys up to Eb only has D and Eb on the left hand and down goes to Bb as a lot of vintage baritones do, instead low A ones.
Low B to high Eb is quite common in early baris, but low Bb to high Eb sounds (automatic octave key) like military band to me. Orsi?
 

Jose

Member
Messages
58
Sorry, I don´t know what´s named automatic octave key, in this more detailed pics you could see, not in the best way, the octave key, I think it´s only one..., and another parts that could be important to identificate this horn.
Thanks kevgermany for your advices, but I must decide withouth having it on my hands... , I only have the pics and a very short video... played with a tenor mouthpiece...

baritono-3.jpg baritono-4.jpg baritono-5.jpg baritono-7.jpg baritono-8.jpg baritono-9.jpg baritono-10.jpg
 

kevgermany

ex Landrover Nut
Subscriber
Messages
21,947
Low B to high Eb is quite common in early baris, but low Bb to high Eb sounds (automatic octave key) like military band to me. Orsi?
I think it's high Eb, from the octave and palm keys, so no issues there.
 

kevgermany

ex Landrover Nut
Subscriber
Messages
21,947
Jose

First don't buy unless you want an ornament or a mystery piece of history - for all the reasons given.

Especially uncertainty over pitch. Pity there are no markings on the horn - on an old one like this there's a good chance of pitch being marked. Even if you only want to play alone, for which it'd work, as soon as you come to play with others, you'll have a problem seling it.

If you can get measurements from the seller, then it may help.

Best chance of identifying this is to sign up at the woodwind forum: www.thewoodwindforum.com/forums/

The guy who runs it, Pete Hales, is the guy who set up saxpics.com. And he's probably the best bet for an id.
 

aldevis

Surrealist Contributor.
Cafe Moderator
Messages
12,125
I've never seen a pinky spatula like that. Not Orsi.
That could be the clue.


good luck with your search.
 

milandro

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,483
the problem with measurements of a baritone is that you are never exactly sure what part to measure and how, so, I am afraid that one might misread measurements fairly easily.

If you cannot try it then I am afraid that I wouldn’t buy it unless it would be ridiculously cheap, but I am guessing it is not, besides, if you are not in the position to try it it also means that there will be substantial shipping costs (assuming that you can ship a baritone since in my part of the world it has become very difficult to ship anything longer than 100cm).

The risk is that you will own an expensive wall hanger.

A friend of mine, a very experienced repairer and player who collects LYRIST saxophones, bought an unplayable baritone of this brand in France. Little did he know, and only after lengthy and expensive repairs part of which he let another more equipped repairer do for him because it involved making a key from scratch, that he had bought an high pitch baritone.

Now he owns a restored Lyrist which can only play with other HP instruments and possibly with an church organ (they are pitched in the wildest pitches!) that he has to play with once a year.
 

Sunray

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,708
Jose

First don't buy unless you want an ornament or a mystery piece of history - for all the reasons given.

Especially uncertainty over pitch. Pity there are no markings on the horn - on an old one like this there's a good chance of pitch being marked. Even if you only want to play alone, for which it'd work, as soon as you come to play with others, you'll have a problem seling it.

If you can get measurements from the seller, then it may help.

Best chance of identifying this is to sign up at the woodwind forum: www.thewoodwindforum.com/forums/

The guy who runs it, Pete Hales, is the guy who set up saxpics.com. And he's probably the best bet for an id.
Extra word [the] in the link Kev ...

Here is the link that works ... :)

http://www.woodwindforum.com/forums/
 

Jose

Member
Messages
58
Thanks everyone. I'll try at woodwindforum.com. Anyway, I have another ones posibilities, a selmer bundy to overhaul... a pretty good shaped Amati Classic de Luxe Lignatone , a Couesnon Monopole I, and an Amati ABS 31 to lowA. I'm looking for the best sound and ergonomie not much more that a thousand euros... Which could be the better option for me? It'd be my first bari, I'm not a professional player.... I started playing five years ago with the tenor and I try to play jazz.... and now I started playing in a soul-funk-ska-latin band.... May be anyone here have an interesting horn for me... May be the best option for me is a chinesse , Thomann TBS 150 or similar...
 

milandro

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,483
I don’t think that the best option would ever be buying a new horn and in particular a Chinese baritone. The best value for money will always be a second hand baritone. I have bough and sold a few and all you need is a bit of patience.

Couesnon monopole baritones are pretty good , I would prefer one of those to an Amati Lignatone, with the caveat that the ergonomics of the left palm keys are not for everyone. If the Amati is in good shape and has a Low A (and you need that! if not don’t look for it!) you might consider the Amati. The Bundy is not bad but factor the price of the overhaul in.
 
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