All profit supporting special needs music education and Help Musicians
Tutorials

M/Pieces - Ligs Which Rovner Ligature? Light, Dark, Custom, Legacy...

Tobes

Member
Messages
174
I've got a Rovner Light Ligature and looking to upgrade, or try something different. I find the Rovner Light is excellent on my Alto setup but for tenor, I was thinking about a Rovner Dark to get a slightly darker sound - most reads I try are generally too bright.

I use Rico 2.5 Orange Box, which I find works best for me and generally a lot darker than Vandorans or other ones I've tried. I was going to purchase a Rovner Dark but was confronted with a whole host of other Rovner models (other than the light) which has got me (slightly perplexed and) thinking about which is better?

Want to narrow it down to just Rovners to simplify and plus prefer Rovner to BG.

Here is a list I found online of the different makes: http://www.alangregory.co.uk/music/Rovner_Tenor_Saxophone_Ligatures.html

I'm thinking that anywhere between 20 to 50 quid is within my budget. All advice welcome...
 

jonf

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,680
Whatever holds the reed on best?

Seriously, having used Rovners, BG, Selmer, Vandoren, cheapy two screw metal ligs, rubber bands and sellotape I've never found any well fitting lig makes the sound different to any other. I've compared a Lawton built in lig to a Rovner and found no difference. I recorded myself playing the same piece of music on the same sax on a Zoom H2, the randomised the files. Couldn't tell which was which.

If I want to change the sound I change the mouthpiece, which has a very real effect.
 

TomMapfumo

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,219
Old chestnut!

I recently played 3 metal ligs alternatively on the same tenor mouthpiece/same reed combo - Marc Jean, Rico HR Nickel, Selmer 2 Screw. The Selmer sounded OK but the sound was on the thinner side. The Rico was more rounded in sound - more full bodied. The Marc Jean just had more of everything to my ears at least - it had a more three dimensional richer, livelier sound. The mouthpiece was my Phil-Tone Equinox, and the reeds were Francois Louis Excellence.

I am perfectly able to believe that the sound others hear may not obviously differ, and understand about ligatures thast don't fit but
I was not expecting such clear differences sound-wise.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

koumou

Member
Messages
168
I don't think there's much difference in sound from lig to lig, where there is a difference though is in the responsiveness of the reed. If you want a Rovner, get a Versa .
 

TomMapfumo

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,219
I would have to say that there are people who can hear a clear difference between ligatures (including myself) and that there are people that do not hear a difference. I don't think that there is any merit in trying to narrow it down further to prove some right or some wrong. Koumou can only hear what he hears, in the same way that I can only hear what I hear. I doubt whether we can be other than subjective about this.

In the same way Tobes is looking for a ligature which would help him create a less bright sound on his current set up, and finds that certain ligatures don't quite do that on his tenor. Surely the only concern should be to help him in his subjective quest, and not focus on other matters. Sorry, if that sounds harsh in any way, but surely the main issue is Tobes own experience of sound, whatever else we may think.

Regards to all
Tom
 

Jazzaferri

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,667
I have a rovner that i tried on sop and a rovner copy that came with my shadow. I hear a difference on the sop and feel/hear a difference on alto. There is something about them that doesnt work for me. Maybe dampens the reeds resonance in a way that doesnt work with me and the way i play.Maybe the faster vibrations of the samller reeds are more prone to dampening with a fabric lig. Dont know but now you have my .02I also think that you will find that work on embouchure will give you more bang for your buck in getting a fuller darker sound. If you are playing an inherently bright mpce that can make it more difficult to darken up but not impossible.Now there is no way you can play on a high step baffle mpce and get the fat tubby sound of an old straight (no) baffle mpce. Not eeven if ou are Coleman Hawkins incarnate.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

old git

Tremendous Bore
Messages
5,545
Is there the slightest possibility that homo sapiens can be persuaded that they can hear the difference between various saxophone items, purely for marketing purposes?

Always remember one high fidelity expert telling me that a recording was not of a banjo, yet i had played and recorded my Windsor on the tape he was querying. Can't imagine why I never bought anything from him.
 

andyb1970

Member
Messages
450
Well I definitely hear a difference when trying different ligs. I changed from a Rovner many moons ago, IMO they really do dampen the sound. Currently I use a Vandoren Optimum ligature and it is fantastic. As you're in Bournemouth Tobes I offer that you can pop round and try if you like. As far as the brightness goes I'd not try and darken it with the lig using a Rovner but instead look at the mouthpiece you are using which IMO will make the biggest difference.
 

TomMapfumo

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,219
Sounds like you could do with trying a Barone Vintage HR piece. I can't find anything about a Morgan "H" mouthpieces - I know the J(azz)", the "E(xcalibur" the V(intage) and "C(lassical)" - any info would be helpful.

Or you may need to change your sax, which may be a tad on the bright side! It does sound like a challenge getting the right sound for any of us. The Rovner I have played most was the EVO-5 which I reversed so that the metal parts were holding the reed - worked well on alto and tenor HR mouthpieces and did not feel very damped at all, but calmer than my Selmer 2-screw which had a slightly bright thinness to the sound.

At least focussing on the ligature at this stage should help with starting to clarify the situation to your satisfaction and understanding.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Tobes

Member
Messages
174
Hey Guys thanks so much for helping with this. I am looking for a sound that is probably darker than most, as suits my style better. TBH I'm really close, with this, and just looking for the final 'icing on the cake'! So that essentially I get a slightly wider range of reeds to my liking.

Tom has very kindly sent me a couple of his Rovner Ligs to try out and keep if I wish - TOP BLOKE!!

AndyB - cool you're in Bournemouth! Would be cool to hook up sometime, love trying other peoples gear and listening to them play. PM me.
 

Tobes

Member
Messages
174
Sounds like you could do with trying a Barone Vintage HR piece. I can't find anything about a Morgan "H" mouthpieces - I know the J(azz)", the "E(xcalibur" the V(intage) and "C(lassical)" - any info would be helpful.
I'm an idiot! It says 'L', not 'H' on the MP, although the engraving is a little scrawny!? Great mp btw, slightly smaller tip opening than a 7*, but loads of volume and response. Also I can control the pitch better than larger openings. I think Morgans have a unique curve to the facing that enables all of the above.
 

TomMapfumo

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,219
The guys that now make Morgan's all work for Mouthpiece Cafe - Eric worked with Ralph for over 30 years, I think its true to say, and designed the "House Blend".

I found this SOTW article on my wanderings: http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showth...-Alto-Mouthpieces-6M-vs-6L-vs-6C-vs-6E-vs-6EL . This means that the 6L is a Morgan Jazz Large Chamber piece.
I've only played a Morgan Vintage Soprano mpc and a Bilger Morgan "School Model" Tenor mpc.
 

Pete C

Member
Messages
344
For what it's worth, I really rate the BG super revelation on my tenor and noticed a great improvement over the basic Rovner I used before.
 

Grahame

Member
Messages
77
I'm a bit late on this thread, but for what its worth I'll share my recent experience when switching to a different mouthpiece on tenor. I recently changed from a Dave Guardala MBII mcp to my Lawton 8*B. At the same time I tried a number ligatures on the Lawton. My conclusions as follows:

Ligatures can make a different to overall sound. Not a huge difference in my case.
Although not a massive difference to my sound, different ligs made a big difference to the playing experience.
Articulation, subtone, altissimo and intonation were all made easer and improved by the choice I finally made.
For a sound that is not too dark and retains the brightness that you expect or want from a metal mouthpiece, metal ligatures were better.
I chose a metal ligature that had minimal contact points with the reed and mouthpiece. This seems to let the reed vibrate more freely.
The position on the mouthpiece is important to get what you want. Small changes forward or back on the reed, however small make a difference (that may be more crucial with synthetic reeds. I did read somewhere that someone thought that the position of the reed and ligature were more critical on synthetics - I am currently using a Legere Studio on my tenor).

I now use a BG Metal Jazz on my Lawton 8*B. OK, the BG lig can move if you need to move the mouthpiece on the cork, but not a massive problem if you are careful. If I wasn't using the BG Metal Jazz (which I got for a steal - normally £60) I would go for

Francois Louis Ultimate
Saxxas TS GU

Previously I have been using on of three Rovners or Selmer 402 (two screw).

I not saying this will work for you. But it did for me. Hope this helps someone.
 
Top Bottom