What was Stan Getz like as a person?

[AlonW]

[ADMIN edit - removed some content pending fact checking]

View: https://youtu.be/E5tnWBrYCbc?si=BKKkSmPtIhr531T8

 

[turf3]

Like many people who finally conquer a severe addiction, Getz admitted he'd often been a jerk in his drinking/drugging days. I don't think that should be much of a surprise. At this point in history I'd say let the man rest in peace. I hope he found some.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Like many people who finally conquer a severe addiction, Getz admitted he'd often been a jerk in his drinking/drugging days. I don't think that should be much of a surprise. At this point in history I'd say let the man rest in peace. I hope he found some.

Yes, he spent a lot of time in his latter years atoning for some of his behaviour whilst under the influence of drink.

There’s also the phrase - never meet your idols. Most of the celebrities that I’ve worked with are very guarded, for obvious reasons. This doesn’t come across well. I’ve also seen it from their side too, having been close to them - being followed around town by fans, who know your name and speak to you from 20 paces back… it’s weird. But it’s about 1% of what the celeb gets. It’s no wonder that they act weird at times, or believe in their own “greatness “.

 

[AlonW]

Like many people who finally conquer a severe addiction, Getz admitted he'd often been a jerk in his drinking/drugging days. I don't think that should be much of a surprise. At this point in history I'd say let the man rest in peace. I hope he found some.

I also heard he was treated differently by his mother because of his talents which messed him up psychologically. on FB I saw some posts about a documentary that was being made by his son Nick Getz I believe, but I'm not sure if it got enough funding.

 

[Nick Wyver]

He squeaked too much as well.

 

[Pete Effamy]

He squeaked too much as well.

A drunk, homophobic, horrible… squeak is just too far!

 

[Tenor Viol]

Quite a few musicians/artists from the past would now be diagnosed as exhibiting OCD symptoms - obsessive/perfectionist behaviour manifested in ways we'd struggle to accept. It seems quite likely that Mozart for example had Tourettes Syndrome

 

[skeller047]

Also handy to have a few around in case any witches need burning.

Perhaps Mr. Getz thought the people in question played bassoon…

The rat pack didn’t really drink on stage, it was just apple juice.

Having appeared on stage with Mr. Martin, I can say this isn’t completely true.

On the main topic, does a musician’s personality flaws affect their music, I can only say that people are too complicated to apply logical reasoning. There are countless examples of artists whose art is generally held in high esteem, who had or have variuos distasteful quirks.

I personally prefer to judge art on its own merits, and forgive the artist for bad behavior. I love Stan Getz’s music, and Wagner’s, and Buddy Rich’s. The older I get the less judgmental I become, probably because of my awareness of my own flaws.

 

[AlonW]

Perhaps Mr. Getz thought the people in question played bassoon…


Having appeared on stage with Mr. Martin, I can say this isn’t completely true.

On the main topic, does a musician’s personality flaws affect their music, I can only say that people are too complicated to apply logical reasoning. There are countless examples of artists whose art is generally held in high esteem, who had or have variuos distasteful quirks.

I personally prefer to judge art on its own merits, and forgive the artist for bad behavior. I love Stan Getz’s music, and Wagner’s, and Buddy Rich’s. The older I get the less judgmental I become, probably because of my awareness of my own flaws.

I agree. I like a lot of music representing all kinds of backgrounds and beliefs. I also sometimes like Flight of the Valkireyes, or Buddy Rich (I’m more entertained by the stories of his behavior and the tape recordings of him yelling at his band than his music but he’s okay) because I want to expose myself to everything that’s out there that’s good in some way. I liked Stan Getz long before I knew anything about his life or personality. And I don’t think much less of him after knowing those things. Actually I’m not surprised considering his immense talent as an artist. Abraham Lincoln said “It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues.” But people should not live in any sort of fantasy world that glorifies people like Stan Getz too much because at the end of the day they were just really messed up people. Nina Simone was a brilliant musician and had a really great spirituality in her music but also tried to shoot a record company executive (and missed) and her neighbors son (and wounded him with an air gun) and she forced a cashier at gunpoint to take back a pair of sandals she’d already worn. She was pretty volatile and one time ripped a payphone out of the wall when she found her she wasn’t going to get royalties for a song.

 

[scotsman]

🙂🙂 just came across this from Stan getz. Interesting embouchure and nice soprano playinjg...regards

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjmYFf4DNT4

🙂

 

[Hankenstine]

View: https://youtu.be/Zky2vL7aK6A?feature=shared

 

[Hankenstine]

View: https://youtu.be/j6ztGbPQFWc?feature=shared

 

[Pete Thomas]

I have reopened this thread after thinking about it and doing a bit of "curating". We did not delete posts, just moved them as OT because it makes sense that the title is changed to reflect more of an unbiased approach to the topic - which could have plenty of constructive discussion.

 

[wakyct]

I think the topic is even bigger than the name in the title. Does what you know about a person's life influence how you feel about their work?

 

[ghostler]

I found this quote but don't know who it is attributed to:

“The first to apologize is the bravest. The first to forgive is the strongest. The first to forget is the happiest.”

After various informal research on various celebrities over time, I find a good number had character flaws that unfortunately led to their demise. As such, I prefer to not focus on the "skeletons in their closets".

Yes, I read about as a younger man, his lack of "apparent compassion" to even grant Astrud Gilberto a small token royalty on her initial recorded performance on the "The Girl from Ipanema". (Could this have been a contributing factor to his drinking problem?)

I really don't know if this was his decision or that of the producers above him. My hunch is probably the latter and he was a representative "guinea pig", which often even today occurs on the political scene.

Remember too Charlie Parker, a musical genius, had a dark side that unfortunately led to his demise at an early age. The coroner who did his autopsy thought he was an older man in his what? 50's? The affect of years of drinking and drugs caught up with him.

Otherwise, just think of how we could have appreciated Charlie Parker performing into his senior years.

And, some may criticize me for saying this, but the apparent maintained bitterness of Astrude Gilberto years later for Stan's initial treatment of her on lack of royalties instead moving past that affected her overall happiness in life.

Thus, I prefer to appreciate musicians for their musical performances and not focus so much on their dark side or dark history. Remember, we all have a dark side within ourselves as well.

 

[skeller047]

I posted earlier in this thread, pointing out that some folks let their dislike for a character flaw color their appreciation for the music. I chose long ago not to do that, partly because I am a musician myself, and as a result, suffer from a great many character flaws. Or maybe it's the other way around, those flaws pointed me in the direction of music. I've come to believe it's kind of a requirement, like doing your long tones....

Thanks Pete for reopening the thread. I think there is something to be gained from the discussion, and despite my own flaws (which I'm happy to discuss with anyone anytime BTW), I think that acknowledging and trying to understand things is way better than hiding them in a dark corner. That said, I'm also glad you changed the title 🙂

 

[Tenor Viol]

At the end of the day, musicians are human beings, and we're all flawed in various ways. It is also very easy to judge the past from the perspective of the present. Not many things are absolutes and society's views over what is or is not 'acceptable' changes over time.

There are things which even 30 years would have been deemed acceptable would not be accepted now, let alone looking back to 50, 75, or 100 years ago.

We can look back and say 'well that wouldn't fly now'. Equally, some things go the other way and some things are accepted now which would not have been 50 or 100 years ago. For example, in 1900 you would not have found female players in professional orchestras, and zero female orchestral conductors.

Some musicians, like other artists, are 'perfectionists' and that leads to issues with their behaviour towards others. Nowadays, we'd probably suggest there being elements of 'obsessive compulsive disorder' or something along those lines in such cases. The current view is that Mozart probably had Tourette's Syndrome, we know that Beethoven was a bad-tempered person, probably in part due to his deafness, and the obvious one is Wagner who held some pretty vile views. Sibelius was an alcoholic.

I suspect that character flaws are probably easier for people to accept or deal with than behaviours and views. One of the toughest ones is Wagner because his views are so unacceptable but people should bear in mind that he died in 1883, and that much of his music was written in the mid-C19th.

There are no clear-cut answers to these questions.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I really don't know if this was his decision or that of the producers above him.

I doubt there is enough information available to know the situation beyond contractual obligations.

 

[Phil]

Having been around artists of various types most of my life and being in the mental health field Id have to say that a larger portion of artists have emotional problems than the average person. They typically excel in one area at the expense of one or more other areas. They are typically driven to extremes and combined with unusual talent (and luck) they become the greats. Extremes tend to include unhealthy lifestyle choices. Sometimes they are nice people, sometimes they are not. Sometimes they are nice people who sometimes do not very nice things.

Everyone makes bad choices. When you are in the spotlight its easy to be judged and then labeled in a negative fashion for one or two knuckleheaded moves. You could take a lot of famous people, disect their behavior and decide they were jerks. So far as I know Getz didnt enter an election for humanitarian of the year. He just did his thing for better or worse.

We want all our heros to be great but most of the time that only works in the movies.

 

[Pete Effamy]

I doubt there is enough information available to know the situation beyond contractual obligations.

I very much doubt that Getz had much say at all. Look at the naff TV he had to do to promote Ipanema - he certainly wouldn’t have offered it himself.
The label execs rule, and if they can screw anyone involved to save pennies they will.

Edit: been there, done that.