What does the alto do?

[jeremyjuicewah]

Wonder if anyone could give me a pointer. I have never played alto in the band. We now have a new guy who is really a beginner and I think is not sufficiently developed to be playing in a band, but he is and it is more or less coming down to me to help him along, which up to a point I don't mind because frankly when I first played in a band I don't think I should have been allowed either, but people let me learn on the job without being nasty. But he plays alto. I have only ever played tenor in the band. All music from Minnie the Moocher, Easy Babe, Honky Tonk Women, Van Morrison, cant really type the output, and I work the tenor in to most of it and sit some out when I think I have nothing really to add. I cant see the alto playing the parts I play but maybe it can. At the moment he is playing rubbish, long monotones that sound a bit bovine, all in the lower octave which seems to me to be a waste of a lovely instrument. Got to be stopped in his tracks and given something to do that is musical. Normal fills, or is there another role that the alto takes in the (ha ha) horn section? I don't really have time to teach the guy nor do I feel obliged to or really want to, but would like at least to point him somewhere and help us all out a bit.

By the way, check out that ad in yard sale that is headed Bargain! Did I spell that word correctly or should it have had a double f?

Heh heh.

As always
Thanks
Mike

 

[jbtsax]

One thing you might do is work out some riffs in harmony. Playing just in 4ths (each playing the same written notes on your instrument) can sound good as well in some tunes. Octaves always sound good too. I've played in "horn bands" with a sax and trumpet and trumpet and tenor in octaves sounds great. So does trumpet and alto in unison. When you have two horns they either need to play at separate times or play together. Otherwise its gets too busy and cluttered. Hope this helps.

 

[Colin the Bear]

What he said.

If you're playing as a section play together. If you're freestyling alto goes up and tenor goes down.

 

[jeremyjuicewah]

That is very interesting. I will need to look some stuff over, but I have never tried it or even thought it. I am having to think quite hard about what exactly it is you are suggesting. Musically. If he reads, and he ought to, there is certainly some stuff that we can try out, I cant see why that shouldnt work, here or there.

If you think of anything else, pile it on.
Cheer
Mike

 

[jeremyjuicewah]

Ok, I can see that now. Good stuff to start with. And good point too about together or alone.

 

[jbtsax]

This site might give you some ideas. Blues Horn Ensemble.

 

[Soupy1957]

I know nothing about Saxophones in general. I'm as "wet behind the ears" as they come (aside from a few "how to" videos on YouTube), so I'll ask a question, rather than offer an opinion. Is the fingering different between the Alto and the Tenor Sax? Is that an issue when helping this guy out?

 

[thomsax]

Most trumpet parts can be changed to alt parts. I'm just into blues, rock, soul .. music so I don't know who it works in jazz. Here is a sample from a SVR song. The trumpet player was not availble so we had to replace the trumpet with an alto.

2-horn section trumpet-tenor is common in rock. Also tenor-baritone. Flugelhorn-alto is great but the alto most hold back. Sax Gordon and Andrew Clark did a Masterclaas for Saxophone Journal called "Tips And Techniques For Two Horns". They explain what to do and how to think. Even if the other horn player doesn't shows up!

 

[jeremyjuicewah]

I know nothing about Saxophones in general. I'm as "wet behind the ears" as they come (aside from a few "how to" videos on YouTube), so I'll ask a question, rather than offer an opinion. Is the fingering different between the Alto and the Tenor Sax? Is that an issue when helping this guy out?

No, that's not it. Fingering is the same. Its just that I was trying to picture how to put two similar instruments together without having them repeat each other. Like two guitarists playing the same thing will use different chord inversions. Good example may be guitar and sax playing together on Honky Tonk Woman. Both are playing quite minimal stuff and each to their own but they set each other off really well. As it turns out it is being a fairly horrid experience. I am trying to withdraw without being mean.

Most trumpet parts can be changed to alt parts. I'm just into blues, rock, soul .. music so I don't know who it works in jazz. Here is a sample from a SVR song. The trumpet player was not availble so we had to replace the trumpet with an alto.
View attachment 3231
2-horn section trumpet-tenor is common in rock. Also tenor-baritone. Flugelhorn-alto is great but the alto most hold back. Sax Gordon and Andrew Clark did a Masterclaas for Saxophone Journal called "Tips And Techniques For Two Horns". They explain what to do and how to think. Even if the other horn player doesn't shows up!

Interesting as I have quite a lot of horn charts, but see above, I am afraid it doesn't really work because the other party cannot really do very much.

cheers all
Mike

 

[BigMartin]

Here is a sample from a SVR song.

Something odd with the transposition there. The trumpet (in Bb?) starts on conert Ab, but the alto part on concert Eb. Shouldn't the alto start on a (written) F?

 

[Colin the Bear]

Something odd with the transposition there. The trumpet (in Bb?) starts on conert Ab, but the alto part on concert Eb. Shouldn't the alto start on a (written) F?

Harmony ?

 

[nomad]

There is always that old adage about getting two drummers to play in time with each other, shoot one.

I guess you could always try that if you're still stuck and reaching the end of your sanity and patience.


Nomad

 

[Targa]

Harmony ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbRPZUv0qs4

 

[BigMartin]

Harmony ?

Maybe I should have quoted more. The post I was relying to said:

The trumpet player was not availble so we had to replace the trumpet with an alto.

 

[thomsax]

Maybe I should have quoted more. The post I was relying to said:

Sorry, my mistake. Wrong paper. If the alto is going to play the trumpet then you have to tranpose 7 steps up. So if the first tone on trumpet charts is Bb then the alto player should play a F. In this arrangment the trumpet and tenor are in C, alto in G (1#) and bari in Ab(4b). We do five SVR songs in three diffent keys and for 3-horn or 4-horns. Lots of papers! But to replace the trumpet player with an alto is not so good for the sound. The trumpet is important in rock hornsections. In music like this the horns are most of time playing the same (unison). With a few exceptions there are no hornsolos. The guitar player take care of the solos! IMO, the horns add volume and diffent sound to music like this. So a loud hornsection is fine.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Why would the baritone be playing in a different key to alto?

 

[Ivan]

Why would the baritone be playing in a different key to alto?

Harmony?

 

[thomsax]

Why would the baritone be playing in a different key to alto?

Of course it should be G for the bari as well. Sorry.

Anyone else how is playing songs like these in a hornsection? Beside SVR, we are also tryiing to play songs by Rolling Stones, The Fabolous Thunderbirds, Taj Mahal ......
Back to topic!

 

[jeremyjuicewah]

We do some Stones and Taj Mahal and tomorrow I am playing bari with the alto on various numbers to see how it goes. I am hoping it will sound better than I think it will, but its not the fault of the music. I am looking forward to hearing the alto and the bari together, though it will be mostly a bit of rock and roll and some xmas numbers that we are trying to rock up a bit.

 

[Vlad]

R 'n' R....You can never go far wrong chucking a Baritone into the mix...