Tone or Sound Voicing Exercise (Don Sinta "Voicing")

Guenne

Senior Member
Messages
1,403
Location
Austria
Hello,

I just tried an exercise from Don Sinta's book "Voicing", where he has you to play high F with the front fingering (alternate F) and drop the note to E just by changing the shape of the oral cavity, without (or almost without 🙂) changing "external" embouchure.

He then notes maybe you could play this exercise down to one octave, meaning the ability to play F-F one octave lower. Not only playing the lower note, but playing a Glissando from high to low and back.
I can do this to A, Ab, but then my tone starts shaking.
Anybody here can do this one octave (I just tried it on Alto)?

Cheers, Guenne
 
Yes, IMHO.
If you don't have any basic idea of Voicing, you'll be not able to play front F 🙂

I see. I really don't have a grasp of the voicing thing. I can get the note when fingering a front F, although I don't use it in any songs or scales. Just on occasion to see if I can get it to speak. I don't know how to manipulate my oral cavity other than to move my tongue around and that never seems to make much difference. I still have a lot to learn.
 
What other exercises does he suggest in the book?

Well, the book has 84 pages 🙂
I think the most basic exercise (he suggests that) would be to pronounce a, e, i, o, u as in words like say, we, hi, low and new and noticing the different oral cavity shapes.
I have done an exercise on this last week and recorded it (I'm Austrian, so the vowel sounds are a bit different, but you clearly can hear the effect on overtones). From "open" to "less open":



Cheers, Guenne
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You can practice shaping your oral cavity , with out the saxophone, by imitating a guitar wah wah pedal. Saying an emphasised meow like a cat will get you in the zone too. Maybe doing the doppler effect of a passing racing car.

I can get down to G. I think it's a common misconception to try to bend the pitch with the embouchure. You can get some movement on tenor and baritone but the smaller reeds on alto and sop mean loss of control.

The oral cavity can be extended by dropping the adam's apple and moving the tongue out of the way.
 
Well, the book has 84 pages 🙂
I think the most basic exercise (he suggests that) would be to pronounce a, e, i, o, u as in words like say, we, hi, low and new and noticing the different oral cavity shapes.
I have done an exercise on this last week and recorded it (I'm Austrian, so the vowel sounds are a bit different, but you clearly can hear the effect on overtones). From "open" to "less open":

O
U
Ä (E)
EE

Cheers, Guenne
Nice playing. Did you hold those shapes through the whole song on each take?
I would be interested in hearing a voicing change through each shape while holding the same note.
 
Last edited:
I see. I really don't have a grasp of the voicing thing. ....... I don't know how to manipulate my oral cavity other than to move my tongue around and that never seems to make much difference. I still have a lot to learn.

Voicing is really absolutely fundamental to playing in tune on any wind instrument. The embouchure only has to have enough strength merely to provide a stable environment in which the reed can vibrate and should not, in normal playing, be used to change pitch. The action of fine tuning pitch know as voicing takes place further back, actually in the vocal tract.

Although the back of the tongue is also involved by nature of physical proximity, it's role is more crucial to focusing the air stream. If you raise the back of your tongue as in the sound 'koo' or 'goo' the aperture through which the air travels is narrowed and thus the air flow is accelerated.

The old chestnut of 'lipping down' to put a note in tune is to be avoided in general playing because lipping down changes the colour of the tone. Obviously if you want a big bend in pitch the lip can be involved, and it produces, in conjunction with the vocal tract, those classic slurppy bends we all know and love. The lip can also make vibrato, and moving the lip can be used as a deliberate process to change the tone colour, it's actually essential in achieving sub-tone. But if the lip is made rigid through pressing too hard on the reed its action is inhibited and subtle lip changes become difficult if not impossible. The really important thing to understand is that in general playing the lip should be fairly relaxed and relatively motionless, and not rigid.

A modern sax, with a well faced mouthpiece, and a reed that is the correct strength for 'you and that mouthpiece', should provide a system that works well enough that you can play the entire range of the instrument from bottom Bb to top F (or F#) without changing your embouchure, DeadAudiolink Removed. I've seen this basic fact cleverly and successfully demonstrated by getting a student to blow the sax whilst someone else actually does the fingering: it is an impressive demonstration which shows that anyone can play the whole range of the horn given sufficient air delivery, even a little kid.

Having said that, there are some considerations to be taken into account. If you bite the mouthpiece - by which I mean that in order to produce a sound at all you have to press hard on the reed with your bottom jaw - you will not succeed as well or as easily as you will if you allow the reed to vibrate fairly freely. So choosing a reed carefully and learning to create a functional embouchure are also absolutely fundamental. In fact I would say they are of primary importance. Manipulation of the vocal tract, although essential, comes later.

Remember, even with a relaxed embouchure, your lip muscles will tire, so don't overdo the practice if you can help it. Better to take a break and come at it when the muscles have recovered.
 
Voicing is really absolutely fundamental to playing in tune on any wind instrument.

I was an examiner about a week ago.
Although the students played pretty good, they did not seem to follow a kind of "voicing concept" (at least it seemed to me).
The were terribly sharp on D, D# and E with OK, squeaks in the high register. When I was talking to the teacher after the exams he told me he and his students were even looking for auxiliary fingerings on sharp and flat notes.
That made me think about how my own concept is "right" or "wrong".
The first thing I would do with these students is to find a pitch center from where they could go up and down (mostly down) a bit and then learn how to voice.
I am cautios because I am not a real "legit" player, my home is popular music 🙂
But Sinta is not a rock player, nor is Rascher.

Cheers, Guenne
 
I was an examiner about a week ago.
Although the students played pretty good, they did not seem to follow a kind of "voicing concept" (at least it seemed to me).
The were terribly sharp on D, D# and E with OK, squeaks in the high register. When I was talking to the teacher after the exams he told me he and his students were even looking for auxiliary fingerings on sharp and flat notes.
That made me think about how my own concept is "right" or "wrong".
The first thing I would do with these students is to find a pitch center from where they could go up and down (mostly down) a bit and then learn how to voice.
I am cautious because I am not a real "legit" player, my home is popular music 🙂
But Sinta is not a rock player, nor is Rascher.
Cheers, Guenne

Well, what can I say. Voicing is IMO an advanced study if the student doesn't inately 'get' it. Singing is, in this respect, a huge help. As for the teacher, I can't really pass comment.
 
Ok, I just tried this using the front F. I can get this F to speak without any problems, but... I've been moving my tongue every which way, trying to shape vowels, moving my throat, and all I get is F. I can lip it down but you're not supposed to that. I'm at a loss. Apparently I'm a defective player. :confused:
 
Ok, I just tried this using the front F. I can get this F to speak without any problems, but... I've been moving my tongue every which way, trying to shape vowels, moving my throat, and all I get is F. I can lip it down but you're not supposed to that. I'm at a loss. Apparently I'm a defective player. :confused:

Jimmy, if all you get is an F, then you are not moving your vocal tract in the right way. Don't despair.
Take the mouthpiece off the sax and play it on its own. With a good strong blow on an alto mouthpiece you should generate a pitch close to a concert A, on tenor it's a G. Get that right first.
Then, do a swannee-whistle type pitch glissando on the mouthpiece but NOT BY MOVING THE LIP, be outrageous, see how far you can go! If you start on the pitches I mentioned, you should only be able to go up a little, but down a whole lot.
If you can do that, you are moving your vocal tract in the right way to practice 'voicing'.
Move on to playing scales on the mouthpiece after perfecting the swannee.
 
To experience the movement of the vocal tract, first sing a high-ish note (in falsetto for a bloke), then in quick succession, pretty much without a break, a low note. It should sound vaguely like singing ee-ore, ee-ore......
Once you have it, speed it up, eeeyore, eeeyore....
 
To experience the movement of the vocal tract, first sing a high-ish note (in falsetto for a bloke), then in quick succession, pretty much without a break, a low note. It should sound vaguely like singing ee-ore, ee-ore......
Once you have it, speed it up, eeeyore, eeeyore....

I'll give it a try later today. I might have to hide in a closet or risk getting run out of the house. 😀
 
Dr. Gary Scavone at McGill University has studied "voicing" on the saxophone in some detail in his study:
Measurement of Vocal Tract Influence During Saxophone Performance

One of the findings of this study I find interesting is that the pitch bends using the vocal tract can only be done in the higher range of the saxophone above A above the staff. This is because the resonance of the the instrument is weaker on these "short tube" notes which allows the resonance "upstream" in the players vocal tract to take control.
 

Similar threads... or are they? Maybe not but they could be worth reading anyway 😀

Popular Discussions on the Café

Forum statistics

Topics
27,306
Messages
505,519
Members
7,090
Latest member
Workthatwedo
Back
Top Bottom