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Accessories Viga Music Tools Intramic - Tenor Sax Medley

Janosax

Member
Messages
270
Hi,

A medley of some of my recordings made with my new Viga Music Tools Intramic saxophone microphone - made with iPhone 7 Plus - tenor sax is Gear4Music TS-100G with Lebayle LRII 8* MPC, Plasticover/Legere Signature reeds.

This new microphone is mounted inside the saxophone neck, just after the mouthpiece and pick up air column sound. No neck mod is necessary, no speaker feedback, no unwanted noises, nice pitch shift effects tracking. Perfect for using on stage!!



Let me know what you think of the sound.

 
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rhysonsax

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,253
The sound is really excellent to my ears and I like what you have done with the recording.

Very interesting solution. What App do you use on the iPhone ?

Rhys
 

Keep Blowing

Senior Member
Commercial Supporter
Messages
1,697
Hi,

A medley of some of my recordings made with my new Viga Music Tools Intramic saxophone microphone - made with iPhone 7 Plus - tenor sax is Gear4Music TS-100G with Lebayle LRII 8* MPC, Plasticover/Legere Signature reeds.

This new microphone is mounted inside the saxophone neck, just after the mouthpiece and pick up air column sound. No neck mod is necessary, no speaker feedback, no unwanted noises, nice pitch shift effects tracking. Perfect for using on stage!!



Let me know what you think of the sound.

Sounds good to me!
 
OP
Janosax

Janosax

Member
Messages
270
Sorry for late reply, and thanks for comments :)

@rhysonsax iOS devices are very capable for music recording and production, even the iPhone.

The DAW of choice on this one is Garageband which is free. A lot can be done with it, including using third party Audio Units plugins instruments and effects, just like on desktop DAW. You will be able to record and create music in various modes, including loops grid and/or classic timeline.

For everyday use, I love to use AUM which is a virtual mixer. You can use with this one too any third party Audio Unit plugin like EQ, compressor, reverb, delay, etc, create audio busses, play audio files or record other apps/your gig. A nice looper to have is Loopy. Those apps are what I've used for the medley above, very fast, stable and intuitive workflow.

iOS apps are not very expensive, but because they're not, that can become pricey at the end of things. I've already spent around 600/700 € in 5/10 € apps in two years, it's a GAS and there is much worse than me :doh: .... But to start with it can be free with Garageband, or around 35/50 € with AUM/Loopy and several Audio Units effects.

Also it's a very tricky worflow at times, perhaps more difficult than with desktop music if you go for advanced stuff. But it's 100% worth it, I've spent many years on Ableton Live/desktop/laptop, and now use almost exclusively my iPhone for music making, nothing's match its mobility and immediacy for creation. It can also be very intuitive if you keep apps setup simple, and touchscreen is very artist friendly IMO.




 

altissimo

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,356
sounds good - does having a tiny mic in the neck affect the response and playability of the instrument?
 
OP
Janosax

Janosax

Member
Messages
270
For sure!! I told Victor it was important to finish it, but he said missing the time for this, as he work alone. I’ve seen a big list of orders on his desktop screen, and he’s working on trumpet and flute versions development. Orders are made by mail, and payments by PayPal. He’s very helpful and can make custom cables too. Very professional guy, lot of passion in his work and personality :)
 

Ivan

Undecided
Subscriber
Messages
7,315
A mic that excludes/minimises sound bleeding from other instruments looks very interesting

There's no indication of cost or any other vital information on the website..... it would be nice to see and learn about exactly what you can buy and for how much: basic info
 
OP
Janosax

Janosax

Member
Messages
270
I bought the T2 coupler kit for 580 euros two months ago, it’s now 485 euros. T1 kit is more universal and also adapted for soprano. I advice for T1/T2 coupler kit as it’s more discrete on the sax, preamp being mounted on the body instead of the neck.
Also, I have the low noise preamp which has shorter battery life, but initial battery is still going strong for me after two months using it one or two hours per day almost everyday. It’s better suited for studio recordings. Ask by mail if you want that version.

Regarding performance, I fell in love with that Intramic!!! :cool:

Very easy to install/use, very light preamp. No blowing resistance difference.

The sound is very even on all registers, and is very natural, very pure.
Most mics, condensers or clip-ons, stand right in front of the sax bell. So the sound captured has lot of higher partials/frequencies, and holes sound is less homogeneous. There is also proximity effect and polar pattern, which gives bass emphasis and coloration.
The Intramic is much more neutral, from bottom lows, right and left hand holes to altissimo.
You will change your playing a little bit if you’re used to classic mics, that needs adaptation, in a good way as you will play like with no mic at all. Classic mics always sound a bit (a lot) bright because of the bell. So you will always adapt your blowing pressure and oral cavity, use EQ to tame this. Also using compression is often needed. With Intramic, I don’t use anymore EQ/Comp. and I don’t do anymore adjustments to my body playing, as it’s sound very natural.

Initial post Medley recording was made with EQ and comp. this one, Cirrus, was made only with pitching effect and reverb:


Also, noise resistance is perfect. With my clip-on mic, I wasn’t able to use pitch effect in exterior, because of wind. Cirrus has been made outside, no issues at all. No high noise feedback on speakers. Almost no sax keys sound too.

And a good thing for me is that it sounds the same in my saxophone mute. This is because the sound of air column is captured inside the sax. On Medley recording, accapella part and first loops improvisation were recording outside, other loops improvisation (2 and 3) were recorded in the mute. Last part used Legere Signature reed, other Plasticover, which I also used on Cirrus.

I will take a few pics later to show you some details :)
 
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tzadik

Member
Messages
346
The infraMic sounds like it's already "processed". And this means the factory preamp did its job in a good way.
Maybe even too good.
All sound technician for sure will love the fact of having very few noises (from the keywork or from the stage)... but to have the sound to fit good into the mix, most of (skilled) sound guy prefer to have a more raw sound.
Maybe there's something you can down with the factory preamp (I know there are two magic knobs).


Listening the sample with at 1080p (where you're supposed to less loss of audio information) with a good pair of headphone and a headphone preamp... lacks in one thing: the core of the sound.
That tenor in the midrange sounds like a big alto... compared to the AKG C214, which picks up much more information... that for sure need to be processed. And it's a bright microphone.

Not a real problem when your with a Selmer with Vandoren, so strong midrange core... but not so much low mid punch.
But with a large bore instrument, you feel that lack quite dramatically.

I guess you still have to tweak something with a multiband compressor (if you are able to use it properly).

But the effect is of course due to the capsules size.
There's a reason why all jazz recordings with a saxophone are made with large diaphram microphones.

I see the infraMic used live and the best thing to fit it is to have a slot on the neck cork (like the saxophone player he used did... to not ). So...
There's a good compromise you have to live with... to have those benefits.

One thing I didn't understand is where the capsule is directed, toward the mouthpiece or towards the body?
 
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Janosax

Janosax

Member
Messages
270
@tzadik

you can’t hear raw unprocessed sound as I added compression, EQ, reverb and delay on those tracks, I’m surprised you didn’t hear it as you seems to have a good pair!!

Everything is debatable. IMO we are used to traditional mics which are not that natural because they pick up a large amount of high frequencies coming from the bell. For my ears this Intramic is quite surprising and natural sounding, homogeneous.

Perhaps it’s also about personal taste. This is perhaps just my personal sound concept you don’t like. I use a very dark mouthpiece, and having a singing alto’ish higher register is my cup of tea. I love Pharoah high register kind of playing. Because of common taste laws, John Coltrane was considered too bright, vibratoless, lifeless by lots. There are just lot of tones in that sax world, and I’m not a jazz player.

Yes I know how to use a multiband comp. But this adds latency for real world playing, so I not necessarily use it on those recordings which are fully improvised/looped tracks recorded in one pass.

BTW, any track from you, just to hear what a saxophone should sounds like?
 

tzadik

Member
Messages
346
I was referring to this video...
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0O-sjkEB1M

... and not to yours.
Sorry. ‍


If it was not clear... I was comparing the differences between the intraMic vs. the C214 (the first microphone of comparison list, "CONDENSER" on the list).


IMO we are used to traditional mics which are not that natural because they pick up a large amount of high frequencies coming from the bell. For my ears this Intramic is quite surprising and natural sounding, homogeneous.
No. It's definitely not that.
I mean... if you use bright and "coloured" microphones, what you say quite logical.
Not every microphone is bright as you are supposing.

Microphone technique tells you that distance and position provides you a different sound and a different phase for that sound. There are several ways to "mic" a saxophone as well as for any other instrument (or generically a sound source). The problem is that, on a live stage, you definitely can't use any mic positioning you want.
And some microphones are hard to use in certain environments, expecially on a loud stage.

It's always compromise.

But, as for mouthpiece, you have:
  • natural and transparent microphones
  • coloured microphones
  • ... stuff for "special applications"
... and this is a very very general classification, that's plenty of sub-classes.
A RE20 is not a SM57 or a Beta57a.

What happens for picking up the saxophone sound it's the same exact of what happens for voices.
Certain type of voices work better with certain microphones, other voices work better with other different microphones.
For sure, then you have that sound guy who can only manage a SM58, because he's not skilled/trained... And this is what most people accept... at least on a live stage.

In studio... you try different stuff till you find what sounds better or what is more manageable by the sound engineer or what is request by the producer. It's not new that the same saxophone player can sound quite different from a recording to another just because of a production choice.
 
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Janosax

Janosax

Member
Messages
270
No. It's definitely not that.
Sorry but that’s again debatable. Should I trust my ears or yours? Have you tried/play this mic? You make your opinion just on listening to YT vids. This is not that I want absolutely this mic to be liked, I don’t care, but you absolutely close the discussion with that kind of statement. What is your authority? Are you a well known professional sound engineer? I’ve read in your presentation you’re a mechanical engineer and that’s not quite the same.
 

tzadik

Member
Messages
346
Well...

1) you endorse the InfraMic. That's ok! You don't hide this fact.
2) you like it. Totally fine with that!

Now... what's the purpose of this official video?
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0O-sjkEB1M


Is it to show the difference between the InfraMic and other popular microphones (like the RE20 and the C214)?
Like we all suppose is to be... I personally think... yes it is.
I don't think VigaMusic published this video for any other purpose than this one... honestly.

It's a YouTube video... at 1080p, the audio is a 320 kbps mp3 like quality, It's not a 96 kHz/24 bit flac, but it's enough for the purpose.

... and in all this debate, if you check my previous post, I've never told that the InfraMic is not a good product.

You need to be aware that different microphones are designed to sound different.
Likewise saxophone, mouthpieces, reeds...
Position and distance will made any microphone to sound "different" because of the physical nature of sound propagation. You get different sound informations even just change the inclination of the mic towards the bell axis and You always try to avoid to have the mix capsule perfectly in axis with the bell... always.

Even if you take you InfraMic and you place it in different place rather the neck tip... you'll feel differences in the sound. C'mon!

Otherwise, why making a video to compare different microphones???
Those microphones will sound different even outside YouTube. It's not about my ears, your ears or my mechanical engineering degree.
 
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