Playing Vibrato too shallow and fast

Saxlicker · Jan 22, 2011

Recently I decided it was time to have a look at the aspects of my playing that please me and the aspects that don't and get other opinions on those points of my playing.

Vibrato is something that pops up in my improvisation without much thought and every now and then there is a more conscious and deliberate use of it.

Well I was a little horrified listening back to a recording of the sub consciously played vibrato.
In the dry recording it's not tuneful and it's too shallow and fast. Yes I have heard worse but I had no idea I was doing this to an extent where it can dominate and ruin anything else in your tone. At the most I had thought it was a simple nuance that worked more than half the time.
It may also be that I don't fall victim of the horrible side as much as I imagine at the moment but none the less A very sobering experience.
Now I am trying to play without vibrato (which I will add again from scratch) and go back to basics a little but it's surprising how limiting that feels.

Anyone else step backwards on vibrato for similar reasons?

Saxlicker · Jan 23, 2011

Saxlicker said:
Anyone else step backwards on vibrato for similar reasons?

No one?
:ashamed :shocked:

Anything else then?

JasonC · Jan 23, 2011

I'm just about to start learning vibrato so maybe if I get it all wrong I will end up going backwards!

Sunray · Jan 23, 2011

Vibr Vi Vib Vibra Vib Vibrato ...

Well - I haven't even gotten far enough to make any real attempts at being consistent ... :sax:

But - I can make sounds like a Nightingale - wiv a sore froat !! 🙂))

:w00t:

I know I am just a n00b ;}

Hey - It's fun ...

c9off · Jan 24, 2011

a teacher once told me that my vibrato was so bad I really shouldn't try it... I stuck with him for another year unfortunately.

When listening back to my recordings I'm always disappointed, I believe expression, bending & vibrato together with attack to be the problem.. but having listened to a couple of your recordings I love what you can do - guess listening to your own recordings at whatever stage one is at is really importent... and to have constructive critique....

Having said that reminded me of a music teacher who dept next to me yesterday - she thought listening to yourself to be the worst thing one could do.... makes you pull your hair out etc etc, almost forgot that comment until I typed this....

Andante cantabile · Jan 24, 2011

Saxlicker said:
Recently I decided it was time to have a look at the aspects of my playing that please me and the aspects that don't and get other opinions on those points of my playing.

Vibrato is something that pops up in my improvisation without much thought and every now and then there is a more conscious and deliberate use of it.

Well I was a little horrified listening back to a recording of the sub consciously played vibrato.
In the dry recording it's not tuneful and it's too shallow and fast. Yes I have heard worse but I had no idea I was doing this to an extent where it can dominate and ruin anything else in your tone. At the most I had thought it was a simple nuance that worked more than half the time.
It may also be that I don't fall victim of the horrible side as much as I imagine at the moment but none the less A very sobering experience.
Now I am trying to play without vibrato (which I will add again from scratch) and go back to basics a little but it's surprising how limiting that feels.

Anyone else step backwards on vibrato for similar reasons?

This is something that has occupied me too. I have heard a lot of exaggerated or possibly uncontrolled vibrato.

I only play classical music where vibrato is much less prominent. So up to now I have not made a special effort to get good at it. My first aim remains to get a good tone and to improve on that.

The other day I checked out the Australian syllabus to see at what stage vibrato is introduced into the work program. as it happens, it isn't until Grade 5, and it is meant to be in hand by the eighth grade. To me this means that there is no rush to get proficient at it. But I do vibrato exercises as part of my long tones. Cello, OTOH, requires vibrato practice from the start in that syllabus..

The Selmer Saxophone Teacher's Guide has about three pages on vibrato. It says that "Vibrato on the saxophone cannot be thought of as an embellishment superimposed on the tone. When vibrato is to be used, it must be considered inseparable from the total sound".

Your idea of going to basics sounds good to me. It probably sounds a bit strange to you, but you are bound to develop much better control in this way.

Pete Thomas · Jan 24, 2011

Saxlicker said:
Anyone else step backwards on vibrato for similar reasons?

Yes. I do. I think it's always worth doing very basic vibrato and tone exercises.

old git · Jan 24, 2011

Why bother to learn vibrato, classical string players excepted. Miles Davis tried to play without vibrato as he said we all get the shakes as we get older.

gladsaxisme · Jan 24, 2011

Well this thread makes me feel better I've always been useless at vibrato and kind of thought tunes sounded better without it, but having said that the first tune I tried to learn "Moonriver" came with demo cd and contained lots of vibrato which at the time I really liked but was unable to replicate,I think some tunes lend themselves more to vibrato than others, eg I don't think sentimental mood needs it at all and benefits from smooth single tone held notes.Well that's my opinion anyway so there...john

BigMartin · Jan 24, 2011

c9off said:
a teacher once told me that my vibrato was so bad I really shouldn't try it... I stuck with him for another year unfortunately.

...

Having said that reminded me of a music teacher who dept next to me yesterday - she thought listening to yourself to be the worst thing one could do.... makes you pull your hair out etc etc, almost forgot that comment until I typed this....

I find both these incidents quite shocking. Just shows you have to be careful who you go to for lessons. You don't listen to yourself so you can slap yourself on the back and say how wonderful you are (or the reverse); you do it so you can figure out what needs working on. Seems some people can never get their egos out of the way enough to do this. And if you're not happy with your vibrato, you get some advice on how to work on it and you practice until it gets better. What sort of person will take money from someone to say, essentially, "you're crap, don't even bother trying."

As you said, the key is constructive critique.

Grrrr,

Martin

Saxlicker · Jan 24, 2011

c9off said:
having listened to a couple of your recordings I love what you can do - guess listening to your own recordings at whatever stage one is at is really importent

Thank You very much indeed!

Beckmesser said:
This is something that has occupied me too. I have heard a lot of exaggerated or possibly uncontrolled vibrato.

The Selmer Saxophone Teacher's Guide has about three pages on vibrato. It says that "Vibrato on the saxophone cannot be thought of as an embellishment superimposed on the tone. When vibrato is to be used, it must be considered inseparable from the total sound".

Your idea of going to basics sounds good to me. It probably sounds a bit strange to you, but you are bound to develop much better control in this way.

Comforting and encouraging to know I am not alone and interesting tip there thanks.

Pete Thomas said:
Yes. I do. I think it's always worth doing very basic vibrato and tone exercises.

Phew!!!
Now I'm OK with knowing it happens to the best of us.
I have also started your practise method from the main site.

old git said:
Why bother to learn vibrato, classical string players excepted. Miles Davis tried to play without vibrato as he said we all get the shakes as we get older.

On form as usual 🙂
Thanks OG