SYOS

Vibration when playing a low F and E

Halfers

Finger Flapper
Subscriber
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1,959
My Yamaha 280 has developed a vibration when I play a low F and E whilst keeping the G# key down. It doesn't seem to vibrate as loudly, if at all if the G# is not depressed. I can't decipher if there is any rhyme or reason for this! Ok, one answer might be not to keep the G# key down while playing a low F or E, but it can be handy and I'm stubborn like that..

I seem to have located the source to the short bar in the picture below with the two screw heads showing. If I play cack-handed I can extend my right hand fore finger and touch this bar, the vibration stops, but having no mechanical capabilities whatsoever, I'm not going to make an assumption and do anything which might cause the thing to fall apart in my hands...

Any assistance from wise headed techperts would be appreciated.

20181123_175532.jpg
 

Andrew Sanders

Northern Commissioner for Caslm
Messages
2,774
Hi @Halfers . Have a look round and see if a screw has come loose down there. General usage can cause screws to release themselves.
Not difficult to do and you know where the vibration is coming from. Good luck.
 
OP
Halfers

Halfers

Finger Flapper
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1,959
Hi @Halfers . Have a look round and see if a screw has come loose down there. General usage can cause screws to release themselves.
Not difficult to do and you know where the vibration is coming from. Good luck.
By golly, I think I've fixed it! Following a desperate search in the Kitchen-drawer-that-holds-all-kinds-of-carp, I found a suitably slim screwdriver and tweaked the top screw. Seems to have solved the issue.

But my experience of undertaking any activities that could come under the Umbrella of 'DIY' tells me these things can never be so simple. I fully expect the Bell to drop off overnight.
 

Stephen Howard

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,821
1: Stop pressing the G# down when playing F/E
2: Place a screwdriver in each of the adjusters on the Bis Bb/G# bar, hold it by the stem of the driver (not the handle) and see if either of the screws move with ease. If either of them do, you've got a loose adjuster.
3: Increase the tension of the G# cup key spring
4: Check that the lyre screw is screwed down fully
5: Check that your ligature screws(s) is nice and snug
6: Check that all the guard screws are tight
7: Check that the screw that secures the adjuster bar to its arm is tight
8: Oil the G# cup key and the lower stack key...and the Bis Bb
9: There is no number 9
10: Stop pressing the G# down when playing F/E
11: Scuff up the buffer beneath the G# lever closing arm (Drag a sharp blade over the surface)
12: Burn it! Burn it with fire!
 
OP
Halfers

Halfers

Finger Flapper
Subscriber
Messages
1,959
1: Stop pressing the G# down when playing F/E
2: Place a screwdriver in each of the adjusters on the Bis Bb/G# bar, hold it by the stem of the driver (not the handle) and see if either of the screws move with ease. If either of them do, you've got a loose adjuster.
3: Increase the tension of the G# cup key spring
4: Check that the lyre screw is screwed down fully
5: Check that your ligature screws(s) is nice and snug
6: Check that all the guard screws are tight
7: Check that the screw that secures the adjuster bar to its arm is tight
8: Oil the G# cup key and the lower stack key...and the Bis Bb
9: There is no number 9
10: Stop pressing the G# down when playing F/E
11: Scuff up the buffer beneath the G# lever closing arm (Drag a sharp blade over the surface)
12: Burn it! Burn it with fire!
I feel bad now you've gone to great lengths and I have (seemingly) solved the problem. ;) That may well change tomorrow morning, so will refer if necessary.
Though I question the reasoning behind steps 1 and 10..seems a bit silly, to me!
 

nigeld

I don't need another mouthpiece; but . . .
Subscriber
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5,616
1. Ignore @Stephen Howard 's points 1 and 10
2. At the bottom end of the short rod there is a screw that holds the rod in place. It should be tight. If that screw is loose, then the rod could vibrate. (I think this is @Stephen Howard 's number 7.)

Tweaking the two screws on the top of this rod seems a bit dodgy unless you know what they do.
 

Stephen Howard

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,821
By golly, I think I've fixed it! Following a desperate search in the Kitchen-drawer-that-holds-all-kinds-of-carp, I found a suitably slim screwdriver and tweaked the top screw. Seems to have solved the issue.
A kitchen drawer that holds all kinds of carp? Sounds a bit fishy to me.

Any adjustments you make to those two adjusters will affect the closing of the Aux.F key - and thus the entire lower stack - so it's something that needs to be done with caution. If either screw has come loose it means the threadlocking has failed - and while giving the screw a turn may well sort out the vibration issue, there's a fair chance that the regulation is now 'less than optimal'.
Also, stop pressing the G# key when playing F/E.
 
OP
Halfers

Halfers

Finger Flapper
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Messages
1,959
A kitchen drawer that holds all kinds of carp? Sounds a bit fishy to me.

Any adjustments you make to those two adjusters will affect the closing of the Aux.F key - and thus the entire lower stack - so it's something that needs to be done with caution. If either screw has come loose it means the threadlocking has failed - and while giving the screw a turn may well sort out the vibration issue, there's a fair chance that the regulation is now 'less than optimal'.
Also, stop pressing the G# key when playing F/E.
I knew it could never be that simple! It was but a very minor tweak, but now you've fed my brain with Sax Anxiety (or something like that). I vow never to press the G# key ever again, dammit! It's due a visit to your Head Quarters after Christmas, so if worse comes to worst, I know a Man who can!
 

Stephen Howard

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,821
I knew it could never be that simple! It was but a very minor tweak, but now you've fed my brain with Sax Anxiety (or something like that). I vow never to press the G# key ever again, dammit! It's due a visit to your Head Quarters after Christmas, so if worse comes to worst, I know a Man who can!
Frankly, it's one of the worst adjustments to make on a horn.
Even when all the associated pads are seating 100% and the action's tighter than a mayo jar lid, you still have to dial in a little bit of compromise when setting the G# adjuster. In other words, you set it up by the book...then you throw the book away and set it up by feel.
Even when you know what you're doing, it takes a fair bit of time to get it just right.

I shall skate over the temptation to make any fishy punnes.
 
OP
Halfers

Halfers

Finger Flapper
Subscriber
Messages
1,959
Frankly, it's one of the worst adjustments to make on a horn.
Even when all the associated pads are seating 100% and the action's tighter than a mayo jar lid, you still have to dial in a little bit of compromise when setting the G# adjuster. In other words, you set it up by the book...then you throw the book away and set it up by feel.
Even when you know what you're doing, it takes a fair bit of time to get it just right.

I shall skate over the temptation to make any fishy punnes.
Luckily, some smarty pants took a picture of the screw position before mild tweak! I have untweaked and the rattle has reoccurred. I will cease from G# (nasty, horrid little G#) and will have to live with until it can wend it's way to Howard Towers!
 

llamedos

Senior Member
Messages
428
You can always rely on Jeanette to cast a ray of sunshine on dark plaices, (Sorry - it's two for the price of one today).
Dave
 

Stephen Howard

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,821
Luckily, some smarty pants took a picture of the screw position before mild tweak! I have untweaked and the rattle has reoccurred. I will cease from G# (nasty, horrid little G#) and will have to live with until it can wend it's way to Howard Towers!
Good thinking, that man!

You could always try popping a drop of clear nail varnish over the top of the screw. I'm not going to advise removing the screw and treating it with Loctite 222 threadlock - because you'd have to be absolutely certain you refitted the screw exactly as it was before.
 
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