Tech/maintenance Upgrading an old Buescher C melody

[garrobito]

Hi people!
Do you remember my Buescher C melody 1930 sax? I was playing this morning but action seems not as smooth as I would like..
I found a small air leaking too... new pads could be necessary..
I like the sound and want to keep the instrument... What your think about invest some money upgrading with new pads and new blue spring to improve the action?
Also I would love to lacquer but it's almost impossible to find a responsible (and affordable) technician to do that.

Suggestion, suggestions... Thanks in advance!

 

[Tenor Viol]

Find yourself a respected tech and get them to look at it and give you an opinion on what needs doing. It might just need servicing and some adjustment, might not, or might need a complete strip down and re-pad.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Beware that if you care about the actual value, a full repad/overhaul is likely to exceed the value of the horn. Especially if you renew the springs also, and double especially if you get it lacquered. Is it currently bare brass?

 

[jonf]

Personally I wouldn't bother with a relacquer.

I do own a c mel (a Conn) which has had the springs replaced with modern ones, and has new, metal reflector pads fitted. The work has ben done well, but was done by the previous owner. I'm glad it was done, but I'm not sure that I would have paid for this work - it was, as Pete Says, more costly than the value of the sax. It does give the sax a much more contemporary feel and sound, though.

 

[Stephen Howard]

I wouldn't be too quick to change the springs. If they've lasted this long they're not likely to fail anytime soon - and they just don't make 'em like that anymore.
It's more likely that they've just lost a bit of their zip and zing - but this is easy to restore with some proper tweaking.

Chances are the action's pretty worn, so it would pay to have the free play taken out of it before you shell out for a new set of pads.

 

[garrobito]

I asked a very reputable technician yesterday...
Replace pads and spring for blue ones, relevel for tone and fix a hit on neck $1100... That's twice sax price.
I would love to do it in order to extend sax live but for now, it's impossible.
Take at look at the impressive overhaul work for this guys... expensive but impressive...
Sax ProShop

 

[saxyjt]

Take at look at the impressive overhaul work for this guys... expensive but impressive...
Sax ProShop

That's MusicMedic! Do they have a branch near you?

They may do a great job, but wow their pricelist is... Scary!

From 450$ for an annual clean, oil, adjust job!

I'd change job if that kind of price was applicable here.

 

[Tenor Viol]

Those prices are... interesting... My local tech charges £30 for a basic adjust, tweak, and oil.

 

[Stephen Howard]

Those prices are... interesting... My local tech charges £30 for a basic adjust, tweak, and oil.

And therein lies the difficulty in assessing exactly what work is covered by the terminology.

If you're making a few tweaks (a turn of a screw here, a piece of cork there) and then simply applying oil to an assembled action - £30 should cover it nicely. You won't have much if any leeway for replacing pads.

If you're doing a proper lube job you're going to have to completely strip the horn and degrease it before applying fresh lube and reassembling it.

MusicMedic's COA service goes quite some way beyond that and includes some pads - but is definitely a no-expense-spared job.

 

[Tenor Viol]

Agreed @Stephen Howard. I would expect to pay a lot more for anything more complex involving full strip down, pad replacement, or anything that takes time.

My cello is a case in point. It's German from about 1900. When I bought it, the sound was poor and I paid a local 'does the basics' string guy to put a new bridge on it etc. It was an improvement, but cheap at £30.

When I had some more time, I took it to someone with a reputation for good work and who works on high-end instruments as well. His bridge, cut and fitted, adjustments to the position and sound post and fine tuning cost £150. The difference in sound was quite considerable.

Which is why I was so upset when my cello fell over and the bridge snapped in two... At least the insurance covered it and it's now fine.

 

[Stephen Howard]

There are many different levels of service.
If we assume (ho ho ho) a certain level of competence, various repairers will offer different services depending on a variety of factors - not the least of which is the customer's budget.
There's no point pitching a thorough overhaul to a client who's on a limited budget, or whose horn wouldn't be worth the cost of the repairs.
Likewise, the vast majority of pros are on pretty tight budgets - and are often quite willing to play around the sort of faults that many an amatuer would baulk at.
And then you've got the repairer's own 'niche' to contend with. Some won't touch student horns, some will only work on vintage horns and some won't do anything but complete overhauls.

MusicMedic have gone for the 'boutique' market - which is a smart move if you're able to appeal to the sort of customer who wants the 'concours' service.

I quite like the other end of the market - and my new 'Underhaul' service (no frills, no cosmetics - just solid mechanics and proper padding) seems to be very popular. It still isn't cheap, but it means every penny goes into the playability rather than the looks.

 

[garrobito]

MusicMedic are not even technician, they are high skilled artisan, using the latest technology (even de powder use for remove lacquer is proprietary).
They point to the boutique store type. Around here I have 2 excellent technician. They're not cheap, life in California is expensive but both are highly trained and spend a life doing what they're doing.
Then yes, have here and there guys who can do small jobs... but I'm very picky for my instruments and not afraid to pay a top technician to do the job.
For now, I gonna let the C melody live like that until I got some extra money (black op money) in order to make a general adjustment.
As a general reference and because I really recommend this guys, I put the links for the locals:
Steve Deutsch Music: Woodwind Repair: Flute, Clarinet, Saxophone, Oboe, Bassoon, Music Lessons, Store, Berkeley, California
Lee's Sax Worx -- 1724 Taraval Street (27th/28th Avenues) San Francisco CA 94116 (415) 759-6001

 

[nigeld]

Hi people!
Do you remember my Buescher C melody 1930 sax? I was playing this morning but action seems not as smooth as I would like..
I found a small air leaking too... new pads could be necessary..
I like the sound and want to keep the instrument... What your think about invest some money upgrading with new pads and new blue spring to improve the action?
Also I would love to lacquer but it's almost impossible to find a responsible (and affordable) technician to do that.

Suggestion, suggestions... Thanks in advance!

The air leaks may require adjustment rather than new pads. So possibly all you need is to get the action tweaked, and maybe get a couple of pads replaced. That would give you a nicer and easier-to-play horn. In the UK this would be called a "setup", and would cost about $40-$80 from a first-class technician, depending on how much work is required. US prices seem to be higher, so I may be way out, but my immediate reaction is that if a tech quotes you hundreds of dollars for a setup, then you should find another tech. In the UK, the best techs do not charge more than the second-rate ones, in fact rather the opposite in my experience. I suspect this is partly because the best techs do not waste their time (and their customer's money) on unnecessary work.

It is worth oiling the action. You can do this easily yourself, but it may be included as a standard part of the setup. Personally I would not get a spring replaced unless it is broken, and I see no reason to replace a pad if it seals OK.

 

[garrobito]

Hi people!
Just a quickly follow up..
Sax went to technician yesterday. Yes, need new pads (we found a year under one of the pads.. 1962), off course need tone leveling, action require some work too (new blue springs) and a couple rods seems not too straight.
Because I do not gonna sell this sax (I thinking use with my church band on sunday), sax is gonna receive a full overhaul, including resonator. Right now, there are not resonator there, no one and sound is a little dark.
Off course, a very deep clean (but not buffet) and fix dents and scratch here and there.
Keep you posted and upload few pictures after sax return (on 10 days) from technician.

 

[Alc.]

Make it play good, then play it good. Treat it good; it's like a pet; it doesn't care what you look like. Just be there to do your job.

 

[garrobito]

Past friday I pick up the C melody.. with new resonator (originally does have just ribet type) and blue springs, instrument sound very good!
Action still less fast than my Chateau but I'm happy.
I got a hell of instrument for years to come

 

[Colin the Bear]

ribet type

Oooh! Frogskin pads? I bet they're french.

 

[Vetinari]

Oooh! Frogskin pads? I bet they're french.

May be moisture resistant?

 

[saxyjt]

Oooh! Frogskin pads? I bet they're french.

ribet type

C'mon, it's just a typo for "gibet type". Cutting edge French technology!

 

[nigeld]

C'mon, it's just a typo for "gibet type". Cutting edge French technology!

Sounds a bit dodgy to me. One wrong note and you're dead! 🙁