Beginner Saxes Unbranded Sax vs YTS-21 For Beginner

KvltMart

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Hi folks,

After 16 years of wanting to start, finally looking to buy a horn, specifically a tenor.

I've got a pretty tight budget, so I was looking around on eBay and local classifieds. On eBay I found this nicely engraved, abalone key one:

It's nice and cheap, but unbranded. I feel like I've seen identical saxes to this one that cost $3000+, so I'm thinking maybe it's from the same factory in China as those but sold unbranded for the domestic market?

There's also a used YTS-21 in my local classifieds for $1000 (Canadian). From what I understand, the YTS-21 is basically professional quality, made in Japan in the 70's to the same specs as Yamaha's top-end models but without fancy engravings/ features. But I also always see it touted as a student model, so that seems like a contradiction to me, and I'm not sure what the age and history of it is.

Thoughts? And does anyone here have any experience with the mystery sax? I really like the look of the unknown eBay one, and it's a few hundred bucks cheaper, but it is still an unknown (though if it's garbage, I think eBay's buyer protection may help me?).

Thank you in advance for your help!

- Ken
 
Hey Ken,

Welcome to the forum and to the Saxophone!

Good call on getting some more info before taking the plunge. If you've waited 16 Years to make a decision, taking a few days/weeks to choose the right Sax isn't going to do any harm.

Personally, I'd stay away from an Ebay purchase as you never know what you're going to get. Especially if you don't know what you're looking for. I've no idea about that unbranded Sax. It might be OK. It might be a piece of trash. Others might be able to give some info on the specific horn you've linked to.

The Yamaha 21 is a well respected horn. I wouldn't worry too much about the 'Student' 'Professional' tags. There's some Marketing hype in all of that. However, who knows if this particular YTS-21 has been well looked after? Unless you know what you're doing, or can take someone who does know what they are doing with you to look at the horn, there's a chance you might buy a horn that's going to cost you a lot of money to fix.

Personally, I bought a new Yamaha. Mainly because it was the 'safe' option as I was starting out and I didn't know anyone who could help me. I think I made the right decision (for me). 30 months down the line, I don't have any yearnings at all to get another horn. I appreciate people have views on buying new. You potentially get better value and resale value in the future if you buy used, but it comes with it's own risks. Which probably isn't new information to you, but it's the best I can give you.🙂

Another option that might be available to you is a short term rent so you can try out the Sax to see if it's your instrument.
 
One of the reasons that some Chinese saxophones are so cheap is because they save on quality control; so the eBay one might be fine, but it might be a lemon, which is more likely. It is unbranded, which increases the risk. Personally I would not buy it at any price. There is no way that it will be the same as a $3000 horn.

A used Yamaha is a completely different beast. The YTS 23 was Yamaha's cheapest sax, but a Yamaha "student" model" is better in build-quality than many so-called modern "professional" saxes.

But the thing to be careful about when buying a used saxophone is that it will quite probably need some work done to get it into proper shape. Saxophones are surprisingly fragile, and need regular servicing. So you should budget a couple of hundred dollars for this. And it would be best if you could take someone along with you to try it who can play the sax, so that you know there aren't any major problems.

I second @Halfers suggestion that you should consider renting a sax for 6 months to see if you get on with it.

Edit: Sorry - I should have written YTS-21, not 23. But there is not a huge difference between them. (The 23 has one extra key, that you will not need for a long time.)
 
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A used Yamaha is a completely different beast. The YTS 23 was Yamaha's cheapest sax, but a Yamaha "student" model" is better in build-quality than many so-called modern "professional" saxes.
I agree on just about anything that was said before here.
Just wanted to point out that the YTS23 is one of the successors to the YTS21 (the 21 is the older model). I haven't played any of those,but I understand that they have a very good reputation.
Look here for an excellent revieuw of the 23 Yamaha YTS23 tenor sax review by Stephen Howard
He mentions the 21 in the review:
"The 23 followed on from the 21, which was in production for about 10 years from 1970 - and while the 21 was a groundbreaking horn in its day, it's clear that the 23 is a more 'mature' horn both in terms of design and appearance. "

When I started I bought a new YTS32 (a step up from the 23), mostly because I didn't have any money put away for buying a second hand sax and I could get a finance-plan at that shop..... That was almost 20 years ago, and I still play that sax. It still plays better than I do :sax:
 
Watch out for Yamaha pads on a used one. One of my techs told me they don't use waterproof pads and so these need replacing more often - a sax tech's dream.

Having said that, the dozen or so used Yamaha horns I have had have mostly been fine, perhaps due to the fact most were only slightly used. But pads can deteriorate over time due to other influences such as the environment the sax has been stored in. You can usually tell if this has been unsuitable by looking at other parts of the sax. Yamahas have excellent build quality and lacquer and so don't always show the evidence of poor storage.

My present Yamaha (23) Vito alto looked shabby when I bought it and five pads were in dire need of replacement. A full overhaul of a tenor over here would be around £300 (pads, springs, felts, set-up) so factor that in if buying the 21.

But DO forget that Chinese one whatever you do. Unbranded, there's no chance of finding reviews as you might with other branded Chinese models, some of which are well regarded, cost a similar amount, but still generally fall behind Yamaha.

Also, black usually doesn't wear well and any future repairs involving soldering will show more than with a brass sax. Some "black chrome" finishes are resilient to wear but can't skirt around this issue.
 
Hi folks,

After 16 years of wanting to start, finally looking to buy a horn, specifically a tenor.

I've got a pretty tight budget, so I was looking around on eBay and local classifieds. On eBay I found this nicely engraved, abalone key one:

It's nice and cheap, but unbranded. I feel like I've seen identical saxes to this one that cost $3000+, so I'm thinking maybe it's from the same factory in China as those but sold unbranded for the domestic market?

There's also a used YTS-21 in my local classifieds for $1000 (Canadian). From what I understand, the YTS-21 is basically professional quality, made in Japan in the 70's to the same specs as Yamaha's top-end models but without fancy engravings/ features. But I also always see it touted as a student model, so that seems like a contradiction to me, and I'm not sure what the age and history of it is.

Thoughts? And does anyone here have any experience with the mystery sax? I really like the look of the unknown eBay one, and it's a few hundred bucks cheaper, but it is still an unknown (though if it's garbage, I think eBay's buyer protection may help me?).

Thank you in advance for your help!

- Ken

Hi Ken,

Good advice here already. I'd add that US$500 or $700 Canadian isn't really cheap so being unbranded and on eBay is a complete no, as Nigel said. It just depends on what brands you can get where you are. For less than that price over here you can get a Sakkusu tenor. Sounds naff but it is well respected.

As Halfers said, if you buy a used Yamaha though you'll likely sell it on for the same price or a bit more so in some ways a no-brainer.
 
If you plan to get a cheap Chinese sax, then you should get one that is branded by the importer and where they take responsibility for checking the horn. In the UK this would be brands like Sakkusu and Jericho. I expect there are equivalents in the USA, if not in Canada.
 
From the same production line. The good ones get branded and the not so good but pretty ones go on ebay. I've heard them called fakes, saxophone shaped objects, plant pots. You won't get the one in the picture. That"s for sure.

There are vey good inexpensive saxophones out there. I don't think a mail order purchase from another continent is the way to go.
 
Thanks for all the advice, everyone! A lot to think about there, seems like the general consensus is against the eBay one. I've read reviews from sax enthusiast blogs where they try out recent unbranded ones like these though and they say it's well worth the value. The Canadian dollar has been quite weak for a while now, so $700 might sound a lot (it is to me too!), but it can't get anything locally, certainly not new or from recognized brands. All I see for beginner price points at Long & McQuade are $1500 and up, thus I've turned to the internet, as I absolutely cannot spend that much.

what does a tight budget mean? Which province are you in?

Tight budget is $750 max, but I was really hoping to spend no more than $500-650. I was considering the Yamaha at $1000 simply because it's the cheapest good brand (/ ANY known brand) I've been able to find so far. I'm in Alberta (Edmonton).

I was also looking at the Mendini ones on Amazon at $600-650, which seem to get 50/50 praise as great for the price or terrible as a tech's nightmare.
 
Going to the casino with your money when your budget is short is not advisable.

Cheap China, no name sax is basically roulette...bad odds.

Find a brand you can trust from a source you can trust and in the long run you will be happier and save money.
 
Buy wrong...buy twice. With a hands on, in person purchase and if you know what you're doing, a budget instrument can be a great instrument to play.

A tech's nightmare might be a bargain for a self repairer where time isn't at a premium and a little ingenuity and patience can keep a horn going for years.


It's a musical instrument, and a temperamental one at that. Hundreds of parts regulated by felt and cork and leather. Bits wear and fall off or stick or are knocked out of alignmemt by a draft or a change in the weather to say nothing of accidental rough handling.

There is so much going on with a saxophone. One tiny leak and it won't play. A poorly built instrument will hold a player back. A good horn is a pleasure to own and play. A dog is a dog and will bring no pleasure and have no value to the player or for resale. Cheap may not be a bargain.
 
Saxophones are very much like people, really. Some are physically beautiful, some are smart, some are easy to live with, some are famous, and some are all of that all together (how many though ?).

But you'll never know all their qualities and quirks with only pictures...
 

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