All profit supporting special needs music education and Help Musicians
SYOS

Accessories Tuners.?

breathless

Member
Messages
270
hi all, I bought a tuner with my 1st ever sax around 2 months ago but due to the tenor being a Bb instrument the tuner always displays 1 tone out!

Now for a complete beginner like myself this is although understandable a little off putting to the point I don't use the tuner anymore as I simply,you don't need any other distractions.

well I found this and it states it is amoung other things Bb, so does this mean it would display the correct tone from my tenor? (that is of course when I play the correct tone, Lol)

http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_mt100.htm

Rgds Lee.
 

c9off

Senior Member
Messages
604
YES: "3 tuning modes (chromatic, guitar & bass, violin), tuning scale: C, F, Eb, Bb (for chromatic mode)"

Set it to Bb & it will display note played for your tenor.
 

breathless

Member
Messages
270
Thanks for that, wish id known that when I waisted my money on the Korg I bought!

still its only £10 so may invest.

thanks again, Lee.
 

kevgermany

ex Landrover Nut
Subscriber
Messages
21,947
My take on this is slightly different. You need to be aware of the differences between concert pitch and the wirtten notes for your sax. Using a tuner that transposes may make it a touch easier at first, but it just delays the inevitable....
 

breathless

Member
Messages
270
My take on this is slightly different. You need to be aware of the differences between concert pitch and the wirtten notes for your sax. Using a tuner that transposes may make it a touch easier at first, but it just delays the inevitable....

Kevin, thanks for your input.
I appreciate what your saying and understand that which may make the task slightly easier now may be more of a problem latter, however I'm a complete beginner and am learning not only to play sax but to read music aswell.

I'm looking at it from the point of view that a tuner cliped on the bell where I can easily see it will confirm every note (bit of a safety measure) ie- I get instant confirmation there and then if I'm out a bit, instead of having to wait upto a week for my once a week lesson for my teacher to say "that doesn't sound right"! If you get my drift?

At the moment everything is forming and slowly I'm finding my way but little safety measures like this I believe could help me form correct tones!

Rgds Lee.
 

kevgermany

ex Landrover Nut
Subscriber
Messages
21,947
Don't worry. You need to do what's right for you. But with eyes (and ears open).

Which brings another point - use the tuner primarily for tuning the instrument and then only as an ear trainer - when you'r playing you need to hear if you play a note out of tune, and get used to correcting it before you play....
 

johnboy

Senior Member
Messages
1,179
However did musicians manage to control things before the advent electronic tuners? My goodness the music must have been dreadful to listen to :w00t:
Right enough of the sarcasm johnboy.
Seriously you don't need an electronic tuner! You should be using/developing your ears to the frequencies of the notes.
Use the web for the online tuning fork, adjust your mouthpiece position so that you are in tune, mark that position on the cork, listen to the notes you are playing and adjust with your embouchure. Don't make life difficult for yourself. Electronic tuners are not the way to learn to play in tune, your eyes are telling you, not your ears!!!!!

johnboy :);}
 

breathless

Member
Messages
270
However did musicians manage to control things before the advent electronic tuners? My goodness the music must have been dreadful to listen to :w00t:
Right enough of the sarcasm johnboy.
Seriously you don't need an electronic tuner! You should be using/developing your ears to the frequencies of the notes.
Use the web for the online tuning fork, adjust your mouthpiece position so that you are in tune, mark that position on the cork, listen to the notes you are playing and adjust with your embouchure. Don't make life difficult for yourself. Electronic tuners are not the way to learn to play in tune, your eyes are telling you, not your ears!!!!!

johnboy :);}

Well I consider myself told then! Lol. Quit the same point kev was making however john your so assertive I feel like I've been told off :shocked:..........

Only joking, but do get your point. OK in that case I'll continue as I have ie- without using one, and will continue to attempt to concentrate on learning in the traditional manner of remembering, (its a very steep hill)!.

Rgds Lee.
 

BigMartin

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,916
Have to agree with Johnboy. Whatever you do, don't clip the tuner onto the sax. You'll drive yourself crazy and teach yourself not to rely on your own ear. And if you want to play non-classical music you'll find that some notes (eg flatted 7ths in blues) sound best when they don't match the tuner. I mostly use mine just to generate a reference tone (A or Bb). Maybe once a week I'll look at the needle if I can't get something to sound right or to confirm that my alto mouthpiece really needs to be that loose (note to self: get alto neck recorked). All you need to learn is what note corresponds to A or Bb on your sax (B or C on the tenor). I tend to find it easier to tune to an A on the alto (octave between the G's needs a bit of help from me) and Bb on the tenor. I'm not even sure I'd mark the position on the cork. It could mislead you when you go out and play in a cold hall, and why deprive yourself of the valuable ear training?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

BigMartin

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,916
Well I consider myself told then! Lol. Quit the same point kev was making however john your so assertive I feel like I've been told off :shocked:..........

Only joking, but do get your point. OK in that case I'll continue as I have ie- without using one, and will continue to attempt to concentrate on learning in the traditional manner of remembering, (its a very steep hill)!.

Rgds Lee.
Sorry, posted my reply before I saw yours. But, like I said at least you only have to transpose one note this way.
 

johnboy

Senior Member
Messages
1,179
Well I consider myself told then! Lol. Quit the same point kev was making however john your so assertive I feel like I've been told off :shocked:..........

Only joking, but do get your point. OK in that case I'll continue as I have ie- without using one, and will continue to attempt to concentrate on learning in the traditional manner of remembering, (its a very steep hill)!.

Rgds Lee.

Hi Lee,
Sorry!, I suppose it did read like that, I do tend to get a bee in my bonnet about things. It's a sign of a very happy childhood (I'm in my second one!)
I go on the same about reed preparation and the ATG system as opposed to soaking. (DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT) >:)

johnboy :);}
 
Last edited by a moderator:

breathless

Member
Messages
270
Don't worry johnboy, I took it in jest! My shoulders are broad enough to get told off once in a while!

And having thought more about it, I'm in agreement. With you all.
Identifying notes by ear is something I find quite challenging however my tutor has for the last couple of weeks been playing a 3-4 note combination and then asking me if I can duplicate it. On occasion ive got the odd note correct much to my surprise.

So unbeknown to my concesiousness I must be obsorbing it albeit slowly.

I'll continue as I have done for now at least.

Thanks for the advise.

Rgds Lee.
 

johnboy

Senior Member
Messages
1,179
Have to agree with Johnboy. Whatever you do, don't clip the tuner onto the sax. You'll drive yourself crazy and teach yourself not to rely on your own ear. And if you want to play non-classical music you'll find that some notes (eg flatted 7ths in blues) sound best when they don't match the tuner. I mostly use mine just to generate a reference tone (A or Bb). Maybe once a week I'll look at the needle if I can't get something to sound right or to confirm that my alto mouthpiece really needs to be that loose (note to self: get alto neck recorked). All you need to learn is what note corresponds to A or Bb on your sax (B or C on the tenor). I tend to find it easier to tune to an A on the alto (octave between the G's needs a bit of help from me) and Bb on the tenor. I'm not even sure I'd mark the position on the cork. It could mislead you when you go out and play in a cold hall, and why deprive yourself of the valuable ear training?

Hi Martin,
The idea of marking the cork is so that you have a starting point. You still have to use those ears to tune to the conditions. You can bet your boots, that any guitarists about will be using a tuner. The one thing that they are useful for ;}

johnboy :);}
 

johnboy

Senior Member
Messages
1,179
Hi again Lee,
Another thing that will help your adjustment, is to play facing into a corner, so that you hear the sound clearly rebounding.

johnboy :);}
 

aldevis

Surrealist Contributor.
Cafe Moderator
Messages
12,178
Not much I can add... Personally I would recommend to get used to transposing (it is essential if you communicate with other musicians) and to use the tuner with a pinch of salt. I find playalongs more useful for what concerns tuning; some applications may help you a lot to practice scales in tune.

Just a little anecdote: An alto player in Harry James orchestra once arrived with his new gadget: a tuner (one of the first ones).
Old Harry James was interested by the novelty, and after the alto player explained its functioning, HJ threw it away abruptly saying: "Not in my band!"
 

Young Col

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,419
Much like the other replies. I've got a Korg tuner and I play alto. I very rarely use the tuner, perhaps sometimes as a check on ear training. I know if I play G its going to show concert Bb, A is going to show concert C and so on, but I don't bother with that. All that's important is how in/out of tune I am.
And you can tie ourself in knots if you try to set up your instrument against a tuner across the whole range of the saxophone!
 

Chris98

Senior Member
Messages
1,094
Hi Lee,

Like the others I use a tuner to get set up, I playing a range of notes in both octaves including some of the more troublesome notes, making small changes to where the mouthpiece sits on the cork until the tuning is fairly good (without much adjustment) over the whole range. The sax isn't perfect so you'll be needing to adjust by ear anyway. Once set up I put the tuner away, and only pull it out again if I sound a bit iffy ;}

I thought this old thread might be of interest: http://cafesaxophone.com/showthread.php?940-David-Beecroft-Perfecting-Intonation

All the best,

Chris
 

breathless

Member
Messages
270
Thanks all. who am I to break with tradition. I got an hour and a half practice session and tried an on-line tuner to set up with, left it running on the laptop in the corner and occasionally glanced at it and was suitably impressed to find it was displaying the note I was playing correctly.

Lee.
 

kevgermany

ex Landrover Nut
Subscriber
Messages
21,947
Good for you. I didn't want to say it before, but when I see guys on stage with these things clipped on and turned on through a gig, I seriously wonder about their musicianship. Not to mention the distraction of that light flashing around when things are a touch dark.
 

muzza

Member
Messages
109
I had problems getting my head round this when I started and put together this referance page. You may find it helpful. Includes tenor convertion.

The other useful tool is a metronome, there are a number these free online ones.

Cheers
Murray
 

Attachments

  • alto to concert scale convertion.pdf
    305.1 KB · Views: 73
Top Bottom