What notes for Handel trills

[SopranoSimon]

Hi, what notes would I play in these trills please? its from the abrsm exam pack 2018

 

[BigMartin]

E and F, unless there's an F# in the key signature. Which note you start on depends on the period of the piece (among other thigs, I daresay).

 

[nigeld]

Is it Handel's Fireworks music?
I'm guessing that there are sharps in the key signature, in which case it should be E and F#, and I would start and end on E, so that it is a trill followed by a turn.

 

[SopranoSimon]

its handel, guys can you make it easier by typing the order of the notes

 

[nigeld]

its handel, guys can you make it easier by typing the order of the notes

It depends on the key signature.

If there are between 1 and 5 sharps in the key signature:
E, F#, E, F#, . . . (repeat as many times as you think is right) . . . , E

If there are no flats or only 1 flat in the key signature:
E, F, E, F, . . . (repeat as many times as you think is right) . . . , E

If there are between 2 and 6 flats in the key signature:
Eb, F, Eb, F, . . . (repeat as many times as you think is right) . . . , Eb

Edit: I agree with @Dibbs post below - the trill should probably start on the higher of the two notes.
F#, E, F#, E . .

 

[Dibbs]

Regardless of key signature, for Handel, you should start the trill on the upper note.

 

[nigeld]

Regardless of key signature, for Handel, you should start the trill on the upper note.

Not necessarily in this case I think. But we are getting into baroque style rules and questions of authenticity.

Handel's original score does not have a trill marked on these particular notes, though there is a trill marked in a lower part at the same place.

The modern edition by Hans Ferdinand Redlich in Hallische Händel-Ausgabe, Serie IV: Instrumentalmusik also has the trill marked on the lower parts but not the top line. (See below)

But the score used by the OP has a trill marked, and it is an ABRSM exam piece, so he must play one.

As I understand it, the baroque convention was usually to start the trill on the higher note, as @Dibbs proposes.
However, if the trill is preceded by that higher note, then I believe that the trill should be started on the lower note.

In the full score the (non-existent) trill is, indeed preceded by the higher note. So had the trill been played in Handel's time, it would presumably have started on the lower note, like the other trills in this section. I presume all the parts would have done the trill in the same way.

The ABRSM score has changed the melody slightly so that the preceding note is not the higher one.

Personally, I feel that since ABRSM has changed the notes and added a trill not specified by the composer, we do not have an authentic baroque score and need not obey strict baroque conventions, so the OP can play whatever trill he likes.

But the important question is what the examiners would expect.
Would they care?

On reflection, assuming that the examiners are looking at the exam book, and that they care about baroque conventions, I agree with @Dibbs that it would be safest to start on the upper note.

F#, E, F# , E

 

[SopranoSimon]

What confuses me is the row with 7 at the start has sequences of notes above the trills, but the row where my thumb is and the row beneath it , the trills there dont have a sequence of notes above them to tell you how to do the trills. So how am i meant to know what to do?

 

[BigMartin]

What confuses me is the row with 7 at the start has sequences of notes above the trills, but the row where my thumb is and the row beneath it , the trills there dont have a sequence of notes above them to tell you how to do the trills. So how am i meant to know what to do?

By analogy?

 

[SopranoSimon]

By analogy?

have no clue what you mean

 

[Tenor Viol]

You've been given one example worked out and they're expecting you to apply that to the others.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Googloogloogle

Analogy

a comparison between one thing and another, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification
a thing which is comparable to something else in significant respects.

 

[SopranoSimon]

Googloogloogle

Analogy

a comparison between one thing and another, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification
a thing which is comparable to something else in significant respects.

why you speaking in such big words.... harder to understand..

 

[Pete Thomas]

why you speaking in such big words.... harder to understand..

But well worth the effort learning.

If you are going to study music to any significant level, which it appears you want to do as you are taking grade exams and asking reasonable questions, then you will need to understand words like analogy as analogies are hugely important to teaching and learning.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Did you mean googloogloogle?

 

[Tenor Viol]

All subjects, whether a science such as geology or astronomy, or a humanities/arts subject such as history or music have their own special and specific words (or vocabulary) which are needed in order to be both precise and concise. Sometimes we don't use the 'technical' word as another word will do.
For example, you wouldn't say "It's solar upper culmination" you'd say "It's noon", but the technical term for the sun crossing the meridian at noon is 'upper culmination' (midnight is lower culmination).
Part of learning any subject is getting to grips with some of the technical terms and ways of describing things. How far you take it depends on how far you want to go. For one person, being able to understand tempo marking and articulation directions may be enough, someone else might want to be able to analyse a movement of a symphony and provide a detailed analysis of sonata form.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Good after solar upper culmination. Can't wait to use that one.

 

[Ivan]

Did you mean googloogloogle?

= 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times three

 

[zannie]

Oooh baroque stuff... as a recorder player, this is right up my street... I like the arguments for whether the trill should start on the higher or lower note. However, as the saxophone wasn't invented when Handel wrote this, or indeed anything, I'd go for choose one or the other and be consistent because authenticity isn't the main order of the day. Having said that, I played Handel sonatas for Grades 4 - 7 (8 came with the blessed relief of Bach) and I always started on the lower note with a slight lean on it, unless otherwise indicated in the score such as an acciaccatura/apoggiatura in front.