Tech/maintenance Trevor James Signature Series Tenor Octave + other woes

[SaxDon]

Hi All - having problems on my tenor if anyone has any ideas:

Dropping octave - when playing a high G and lower it's very keen to start voicing the lower octave. Also the transition from that G to Bb/A is very stuffy. The octave mech looks to be working fine - nothing bent, pads are covering the octave pips, side octave key is working nicely and there seems to be enough gap between the pip and pad.

I suppose the pip could be blocked a bit but that seems like a pain in the proverbial to access and de-clog.

Intonation - it's very sharp from high B up and very flat below low F - I'm talking anywhere between .25-40 cents.

All a bit frustrating. Bought it s/h from Millers in Cambridge whilst I was on a training course. I'm nowhere near the place normally!

Waiting to hear back from Steve Howard so he can take a look but thought I might see if anyone here has any thoughts.

Cheers

 

[Bob M.]

From the verbology of what you are saying, and cutting ti down to simple terms, I am thinking you are not super familiar with your instrument, in which case I'd personally say you really should take it to your repair guy. The rest of us would just be guessing and there could be many things it would involve, including what you have already mentioned...and since you have mentioned these things already, without saying it wasn't them, I am concluding you haven't checked yourself or done even basic problem solving for the situation. that is a good thing probably if you havent gotten into rudimentary repairs and are unfamiliar with them. saxophones for all their simplicity can be complicated instruments and even finicky. The 'pip' is imo pretty simple to clean really. and other things are also simple as well, but like everything it just takes time to learn and develop precise knowledge of, as well as if it is you as a player, and honestly I also think this is going to be part of your issue too. If you have a good instructor they often will know about general issues like this as well from their own experiences.
I suggest to every player honestly to get into repair and understanding of their instrument at least on the basic levels. Not experimentation mind you or winging it. There are many ways to learn of course though as well as styles of doing things.

 

[spike]

Yes sometimes I get up in the morning and my brain feels like it's full of cotton wool balls.
The horn that played beautifully yesterday has overnight become a soggy wet sounding lettuce leaf.
Time for an attitude check, clean up the kitchen, hoover the living room, hit the brain reset button.
Back in the shed and hey presto, A la Gusto. No problemo.
Of course there may be a technical problem with your horn, long range diagnostics are difficult if not practically impossible.
Try the attitude check above, and don't let the instrument get the better of you.
Tame your saxophone.
Tongue in cheek to a certain extent - I can only speak from personal experience. Been there, done that.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I suppose the pip could be blocked a bit but that seems like a pain in the proverbial to access and de-clog.

Without yet the benefit of our resident techs, I'd say this seems the likely explanation, and a great excuse to learn how to disassemble the octave mechanism and maybe the right stack. And how to shove a pipe cleaner down there and reassemble.

 

[Jeanette]

Without yet the benefit of our resident techs

shove a pipe cleaner

Would that be Pip Ecleaner our wiry tech from the big smoke

Jx

 

[spike]

Dear Marge,
I'd be very interested to learn from our resident techs as to how on earth an octave pip can become blocked.
Both pips are connected to a tube that protudes into either the neck or the body of the saxophone.
How on earth can any gunge get in there unless of course it comes from left over particles of fluffy tickling stick dusters or worn out pull through sponge fibres/fibers.
Sorry to trouble you Margie but my mind is presently boggling.
Should I wash out my pips and pipes on a daily basis? 😉

 

[Stephen Howard]

Dear Marge,
I'd be very interested to learn from our resident techs as to how on earth an octave pip can become blocked.

You'd probably be surprised at how much sludge builds up in the top section of a horn's body tube.
Next time you're done playing, whip the crook off and poke a finger up the tenon sleeve end - note any slimeiness (if that's even a word).
Likewise, poke a finger down the top of the main tube and see if it feels slippery.

The thing about (sax) gunge is that it's quite slow to build up, but once it starts it forms an 'anchor' upon which yet more gunge can build upon. It's a lot like a coral reef - and over a suitably long period of time it can form a hard crust (it's calcium carbonate...AKA scale) that cause sall manner of problems inside an octave key tube. It also acts as an anchor for softer goo - so it's wise to have the pips chemically cleaned from time-to-time (should be standard on a general service).

Your bore cleaner can exacerbate the problem. Pull-throughs have almost no scouring properties at all, and will gather up all the goo from the bottom bow upwards and drag it up the bore...depositing it whatever crevices it can find. In extreme cases the fibres from the pull-through can form a web over an octave key tube...

Testing Pad Savers and bore cleaners

In some cases the pip comes pre-blocked from the factory, due to being clogged up with buffing soap residue. This is rare, but should never be ruled out.

I've had an email from Don, and have offered a slot in my schedule.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Have you checked the bore for foreign objects? Has a spare mouthpiece disappeared around the time this fault started. You'd be surprised what gets up there. 😉

 

[SaxDon]

Hi all, thanks guys, all very useful and informative.

I took the octave mechanism apart last night and tried using the bristles of a toothbrush to declog the pip. There is a definite improvement insofar as it doesn't seem to be as eager to drop an octave. It's still not perfect though so I suppose it really does need a good going over with a pipe cleaner, etc. to really open up the vent.

The rubber bumpers on the various swivel/body bars were disintegrating already by the looks of it and came off when I took the mech apart. So I've got a little bit of extra play in the mech and the G pip key doesn't open as much as it should. A straightforward fix though.

More annoying is the intonation issues. Everything above high B seems to go very sharp; between high B and middle F sharp is good; but then the f sharp goes from just sharp to making a very flat (30+ cents) F. In the middle register it starts to even itself out at middle D on the way down until it gets to the low F where it does the same thing again and evens out around low C/B. Annoying!! 🙂

Thanks again folks