Beginner throat movement

[allansto]

Thanks to all who replied to reed softness
Moving along now to my next conundrum.
Last week I had a lesson and my teacher told me that when i tongue notes with correct technique
I shouldn`t be able to see my throat move( if looking in the mirror)
If this is correct. can any one tell me why??????

 

[johnboy]

I would have thought it impossible for the throat not to move a little bit, mine certainly does!
It all depends on the amount the tongue moves. More = More.
I don't understand his thinking. I've never heard of it being a problem for anyone.
Does he have a double/treble chin and can't see his move, so thinks that it shouldn't
John.

 

[Two Voices]

To be honest I can't see any logic in this at all. Who cares if you're throat moves or not. With some notes you have to adjust your throat to make them sound right anyhow. If you play an attacked note I say it was impossible for your throat not to move. In my opinion there's bigger things to worry about than this!

BTW I didn't mean for this to sound like a rant! ;}

 

[Two Voices]

Does he have a double/treble chin and can't see his move, so thinks that it shouldn't
John.

So you won't see mine move then ))

 

[kevgermany]

I think the point is that the tongue needs to move a little, otherwise you're overdoing it and it shows in the throat. Overdoing it with the tongue means lck of control and difficulty with speedy passages or delicate tonguing....

 

[Two Voices]

Well that will develop naturally like anything else. To consciously be thinking is my throat moving is madness.

 

[Morgan Fry]

tonguing should be typically only with the tip of the tongue. if the whole tongue even into the throat is used, you'll never develop the necessary dexterity to play well, and you'll have real problems attacking notes in tune as well.

One thing I have done to practice this is making sure the sides of the tongue are anchored to the upper molars, and only move the tip of the tongue.
hth
Morgan

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[TomMapfumo]

Dizzy Gillespie's trumpet teacher must have got fed up of telling him to avoid puffing his cheeks out.............

 

[rudjarl]

You shouldn't be thinking about how your throat is moving unless it move sideways.

 

[Two Voices]

Dizzy Gillespie's trumpet teacher must have got fed up of telling him to avoid puffing his cheeks out.............

I bet! Good job he just did what he wanted to

You shouldn't be thinking about how your throat is moving unless it move sideways.

Precisely! It should be something that naturally develops!

 

[kevgermany]

Has it occurred to anyone that the teacher may have spotted a problem and be trying to get Allan to correct it?

I did a couple of experiments - light tongueing with the tip, (or as close to it as I can get) - no throat movement. Heavy tonguing - lots of throat movement...

 

[TomMapfumo]

Well, Kev, it has..............................! It just sounds that the point the teacher is trying to make has not been explained very clearly, unless he is helping the player with the mechanics of the "correct" technique and not just describing a physical consequence of "incorrect" technique.

It is not that far removed from the following - removing crutches from a person with a broken leg, because one of the physical signs of not having a broken leg is not needing crutches. Hence if the crutches are removed the leg will no longer be broken - faulty logic, to say the least.

So, it might well be because the teacher has noticed some failure in technique - the key for me is how and why it may be explained in order that the player can be helped to learn and develop from such an intervention. There does seem a body of opinion on the thread that this may be a slighlt premature focus, and not necessarily something that needs to be isolated at this time.

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[allansto]

Hi guys
From what i understand my teacher is trying to get me to atack the note more gently rather than harshly,
He is pushing my limits of ability every week which is good cos Im getting value for money.
Thanks for your usefull input.

 

[TomMapfumo]

A common technique for tonguing on trumpet is to think/play doo doo doo doo, rather than tu tu tu tu, when you tongue so that the result is softer. Practice this without the mouthpiece and you should feel the difference quite significantly in your mouth/throat.

 

[saxnik]

I 'doo' on sax, rather than 'tu'. Clarinet is more of a 'tu'...

 

[allansto]

Thanks for the advice guys
Yeh when I listen to others play I can here a doo ,not a too.
Ive been trying to perfect this but Im having trouble
I can say doo but cant play doo........ whats the trick?

Also when I listen to pros play I hear notes being huffed as notes change what is this technique called???????? This I can do.

 

[TomMapfumo]

You should be saying the doo almost as a whisper, and the tip of your tongue should almost have an upward curl and be quite soft. So it really is just whispering the doo with no sound, just in your mind.

 

[allansto]

Thanks Tom Ill give it a try

 

[kevgermany]

Huffing? Do you mean subtoning? Like Stan Getz?

 

[allansto]

I had a lesson the other night and my teacher was listening to my tonguing technique,
he agreed with me that my attempts at tooing or dooing sounded very harsh or severe.
I tried thoo,thoo ,thooing and the result was a much softer and gentler start of the note.
We all have different pallates in our mouths and i guess different languages cause us to use
our mouths in different ways so whats good for one isnt for the other .
So for now Im going to continue practicing the thoo or thu and see what develops.
It certainly sounds better than my too or doo.
Thanks to everyone for their input.
Allansto.