Tone The snake charmer effect

[ptg]

Hello again!

I am "the bit depressed" thread guy and really appreciated all of your comments.

I am still vacillating on whether to continue or not and for the heck of it I recorded myself for the first time and...oh...so not good.

I know my note selection is poor and am hoping that gets better with time.But in my head the sax sounds like...well...a sax! You know, kind of what you hear on a record only not as well played. To my disappointment instead of a relatively full sound, I have learned that I sound like a whiny snake charmer. Think of all the things not pleasing to the ear and...voila! I have nailed that tone.

Interestingly enough my teacher (yes, still looking for a new one) always tells me that my tone is good for this stage of playing, but it really does add insult to injury.

So I just wanted to ask what I can work on to put the snake back in the basket... Unless I quit and then the snake wins! 🙂

 

[kevgermany]

First thing.... Pretty much everyone gets a shock when they first hear a recording of themselves. Part of it is recording technique. The rest is yourself.

So you can either use it to beat yourself up, or as a statement of progress and indicator of what to work on.

There's an old saying: The sax is an easy instrument to play.... Badly.

But like any instrument, it takes work and effort. It's not something most people do quickly. Takes patience and perseverance.

Pick something specific to work on, ask your teacher for advice, then try it for a couple of months and record again. You'll be amazed.

 

[carburetor]

You may already know this, but recordings often have very little to do with what things actually sound like.

In my experience, I did not learn what I actually sound like until I got a mic with a flat response (Shure SM81). Most cheap mics exaggerate certain high frequencies. Mic placement has a big effect too, as Nick Wyver demonstrated in this thread: Position of recording microphone

Also, you will always hear more low frequencies than people around you (or the microphone) while playing because the vibrations travel directly into your head from the mouthpiece (I think). A good way to hear your full tone is to play very close to a wall, facing it, so that the sound reflects back at your ears.

 

[Jeanette]

I have had people tell me I have a nice tone, sometimes when I play I think it is ok. Whenever I record myself I think it sounds terrible.

Recording is a whole new skill set but still worth doing to measure progress.

Two pieces of good advice I had here were add some reverb and listen again tomorrow....

For some reason it can sound better the next day

Don't let it put you off 🙂

Jx

 

[Tenor Viol]

As above, recording is not straightforward. Also, what are you listening through? A flat response neutral hi-go system or sound card and tinny speakers on a laptop?

Tone develops. My sax tone is uneven, and I won't talk about my cello tone!

Perseverance is needed. And the sound people hear 6 feet away is not what you hear.

 

[Zugzwang]

You know you want to keep playing, or you wouldn't be here at the Cafe.
I am also v. self critical and can despair over trying to learn to play. Then when we get down we're likely to turn on the very thing that can give us joy.
Treat your sax as "no choice, got to play" for a bit, and keep coming here - the people are v. kind. Good luck.

 

[Vetinari]

Self criticism is too easy. Perseverance may be needed to get where you want to be, but don't knock where you are. It is probably the goal of many people just to get a decent tune out of their sax such that nobody, neighbours, friends, etc. say that's horrible. I have heard famous performers, even on television, radio and record miss notes play out of time and tune. This is then said to be their interpretation and style. If you can get every thing perfect every time where do you go? Nothing else to aim for. The differences between perfect and actual, give a performance it's individuality and feeling. If all were perfect life would be boring, all perfomances identical. Be happy play music. I wish I could play half as good as you.

 

[nigeld]

I hated the result the first time I recorded myself - not only was the tone awful, but I was badly out of tune as well. I am still always disappointed when I hear a recording, but it gives me useful stuff to work on.

I have been experimenting with microphone position recently, and it makes a big difference. The obvious - directly in front and level with the bell - microphone position does not give a very nice sound in my experience.

My feeling is that you probably don't need to put the snake back in the basket, you just need the snake to grow fatter, and that will happen in time. Your teacher tells you that your tone is good for the stage you are at, so you have to accept that it may take a year or two before you sound like Stan Getz.

You know what you have to do - long tones.
It might also be worth experimenting with different types of reed - they can make a big difference.

 

[johnboy]

Hi there to everyone, relax, don't get upset. The first step to a good tone, is to play long notes, facing into and a few feet from the corner of your practice room so that the sound rebounds back to you. As time goes by, your tone will improve without you realizing it. The other important thing is the mouthpiece and reed combination. Some mouthpieces are very bright sounding, so tell us your m'piece reed combination.
Johnboy.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Listening to a recording straight after playing the instrument is always disappointing. How could what a microphone captures played through speakers of variable quality compare with the majesty of the beast itself. If t could nobody would go to live music. You will always be disappointed with your recorded sound but will get used to it.

The only way to improve is to stick at it and practice every day. It's good that you are your own harshest critic. It's good that you have a sound in your head.

Patience and perseverance will bring results. It takes a lifetime.

 

[altissimo]

How many famous musicians have ever been happy with their sound? Probably very few of them....

 

[ptg]

There's an old saying: The sax is an easy instrument to play.... Badly.

Priceless!

As above, recording is not straightforward. Also, what are you listening through? A flat response neutral hi-go system or sound card and tinny speakers on a laptop?

Tone develops. My sax tone is uneven, and I won't talk about my cello tone!

Perseverance is needed. And the sound people hear 6 feet away is not what you hear.

I recorded it on a Zoom which produces fairly good results. Yes, I played it back on my cheap desk top computer speakers but I know bad tone when I hear it...

You know you want to keep playing, or you wouldn't be here at the Cafe.

I do want to keep playing but not at the expense of wasting a lot of time and money when I could be doing much more constructive things like...wait...I'll think of something!

Thanks for the pep talk!

 

[ptg]

I wish I could play half as good as you

Believe me you play better than me!

 

[ptg]

Hi there to everyone, relax, don't get upset. The first step to a good tone, is to play long notes, facing into and a few feet from the corner of your practice room so that the sound rebounds back to you. As time goes by, your tone will improve without you realizing it. The other important thing is the mouthpiece and reed combination. Some mouthpieces are very bright sounding, so tell us your m'piece reed combination.
Johnboy.

I tried to step up and got a Meyer mouthpiece. Being at work I am embarrassed to say that I think but not sure that it's a 5. I am using La Voz medium reeds which I have been told is equal to about a 2-1/2. That being said I am sure the poor tone is my doing...

 

[Vetinari]

Believe me you play better than me!

I dare not try to put one of my recordings on here, I get a better tone from my chain saw. I am great at tuning 2stroke engines.🙁

 

[Vetinari]

Believe me you play better than me!

Don't belive it. I might have the gear but I've no idea. As the saying goes. After 12 months I can read the music well enough to know that I played it wrong. Still gotta keep trying. It's that or take up gardening. 🙁

 

[ptg]

Don't belive it. I might have the gear but I've no idea. As the saying goes. After 12 months I can read the music well enough to know that I played it wrong. Still gotta keep trying. It's that or take up gardening. 🙁

Being across the pond, I thought everyone in your country gardens!

 

[Vetinari]

Not if I can help it. Where in states are you. We've got relatives in Rochester NY

 

[Colin the Bear]

I do want to keep playing but not at the expense of wasting a lot of time and money when I could be doing much more constructive things

You can't buy tone. You have to earn it. No need to spend money. Big need to spend time. Four hours a day for a decade or two should sort it.

 

[Vetinari]

Four hours a day for a decade or two should sort it.

That will make me 90 yrs old. Hope I can still lift the sax off it's stand.