Tech/maintenance The Martin Tenor just arrived from the US

[Tobes]

This post is kind of following on from the previous Martin Handcraft one, the Martin saga continues 🙂

"The Martin" tenor just arrived from the states (£950 total inc.shipping etc) - it has been just serviced over in the USA so some newer pads, corks, felts etc. but still a couple of leaks - I got 3 fixed yesterday in Bournemouth at "Play it Again" for free while I bought some reads and now she's at least playing pretty well, need to book for a popper service next week, not using the previous repairer in Bournemouth who will remain nameless due to experience with him restoring the Handcraft.

Have a look at the attached pics. Not much lateral play in keys which is good (one minor one) but palm keys look like they have been bent (see pics) so take a lot of getting used to (SHOULD I TRY GET THESE BENT BACK?) and low Eb key guards are too low so keep hitting my leg / crotch (TRY TO BEND BACK?)! Seriously large number of DENTS all over it (see pics) but don't seem to affect the sound, not sure it's worth getting these knock out?? Still few leaks (maybe from transit) so lower tones are not easy but at least playable. The Magna was in much better condition but about £400 more so...dunno really.

Very different horn to anything I've ever seen or owned. Comparable sound to my Handcraft, maybe a tad less big / dark, although possibly more character and interesting at points I need to get a proper service and play it more really. I recorded them side by side but couldn't really tell the difference. The KEY ACTION is on another level though, lot more like my Yani, very slick but compared to Yani sound is more positive / louder and seems to speak easier. So maybe I have got the same sound as the Handcraft but in a more modern playing horn!?? Key height maybe not consistent as Handcraft (a bit low at points, Handcraft key have been set consistently high throughout) which maybe affect tone / tunning at little. Amazing at top though, and altisimo very easy and clear.

Interested in peoples advice on repair or whether I've bought a pile of junk - maybe I can record something later today and post....

 

[Tobes]

some more pics

 

[garrobito]

Humm.. at the amount money you pay, there are not too much room to invest and resell in a future..
Unless you want to keep it for the long shot, I would suggest sell and cut your loses..
For me, sax need serious attention even a good complete overhaul in order to play for years to come.
But that could be another $500.. again if you think keep it, fix it, I'm sure it's gonna give you a lot of good moment..
I can talk for my recent experience with my Buescher 1925.. a full overhaul give this baby a new life and now is ready to play for years.. expensive but I do not think sell for years to come.. Good luck!
Just my 0.2 cents...

 

[Tobes]

pretty sure it doesn't need a full overhaul - couple of leaks that's all. The keywork is good. It's just the dents - do they affect the sound, probably not. Pads and keys are good, but needs a through clean - I can strip and clean it myself, might be best option - couple spiders came out of it earlier, probably all the way from US lol

 

[altissimo]

I've seen prettier looking saxes, but it's not a pile of junk... you can always give it a good polish - or delacquer it if you're that way inclined. I think that old nitrocellulose lacquer will come off fairly easily with paint stripper, but there are other people on here who know more about that than I do. Personally I like to leave things alone on my Martin Indiana.
If you love the thing then it's worth doing whatever it takes to get it into top playing condition
If you can afford it, get the palm keys straightened, the dents taken out and the action set up to perfection.. I think dents do affect the sound and intonation a bit - any deviation in the bore will affect things in some way.
A good tech will also check to see if there are any bends in the body tube and if the bell has been knocked out of alignment. Martins are tough old saxes but if they've had as hard a life as yours, then best to get these things looked at by someone who knows what they're doing
hopefully someone can recommend the best sax tech in your area, I can only think of Rupert Noble in Brighton or Griff in Exmouth both of whom are a bit of a schlep from Bournemouth

 

[Tobes]

Thanks very much for that. I think you're right it's worth getting all sorted, could well be the ultimate sax! Did a jam tonight with it and it sounded awesome, so easy to play and nice dark vibrant sound, but could be even more. I agree with you, i THINK some of the dents especially nearer the top could be affecting the intonation a little, i am compensating a bit for it but nice tone holds, keys right height less dents...well on to a winner here. Might strip it down, give it a good clean and send to Stephen Howard to have a look at....

 

[garrobito]

pretty sure it doesn't need a full overhaul - couple of leaks that's all. The keywork is good. It's just the dents - do they affect the sound, probably not. Pads and keys are good, but needs a through clean - I can strip and clean it myself, might be best option - couple spiders came out of it earlier, probably all the way from US lol

..talking about illegal immigration... Did you ask for passport??? 😉
Good luck with your new friend! Day after day I convinced myself old sax are impressive musical machines... Maybe time to start replace my Chateau for an old Martin or Bauscher...

 

[Stephen Howard]

. Might strip it down, give it a good clean and send to Stephen Howard to have a look at....

Noooo...don't send it to me - I'm up to my ears in work at the moment, and already have a couple of Martins awaiting my tender touch (ahem).
It's likely to be quite a big project - Martins don't take too kindly to being knocked about. If the toneholes aren't already popping off through corrosion, the process of knocking dents into and out of them nearly always result in some collateral damage.

 

[sdt99]

I can see the palm keys have been bent to the side but I don't think they've been bent down.

I have a Martin Committee II alto and the palm keys are very low - I added cork risers to make it playable. I also have a committee III bari and the palm keys are quite low on that, though being a bigger instrument it's less noticeable.

Before doing any key bending check stock web photos to make sure the keys really have been bent down - it could be that they are original and you're just used to modern palm key ergos. in which case add some risers (runyon, cork or if you're feeling wealthy Oleg).

 

[Tobes]

Noooo...don't send it to me - I'm up to my ears in work at the moment, and already have a couple of Martins awaiting my tender touch (ahem).
It's likely to be quite a big project - Martins don't take too kindly to being knocked about. If the toneholes aren't already popping off through corrosion, the process of knocking dents into and out of them nearly always result in some collateral damage.

OK understand Stephen, toneholes are pretty good so might be best if I just give it a good clean and get shop to remedy remaining leaks

 

[Tobes]

I can see the palm keys have been bent to the side but I don't think they've been bent down.

I have a Martin Committee II alto and the palm keys are very low - I added cork risers to make it playable. I also have a committee III bari and the palm keys are quite low on that, though being a bigger instrument it's less noticeable.

Before doing any key bending check stock web photos to make sure the keys really have been bent down - it could be that they are original and you're just used to modern palm key ergos. in which case add some risers (runyon, cork or if you're feeling wealthy Oleg).

I think that the D palm key has possibly been bent for a reason, takes a bit of getting used to, but I am getting the hang of it.

 

[griff136]

Regarding the dents - ones on the crook are likely to effect the tuning, the ones on the body not so much. The ones I would be concerned about are those dents which are near to any tone holes as they may have caused the body to come away from the soldered tone hole. But as Stephen says the process of removing dents nearly always result in some damage.
IMO two of the best ways to test if your soldering has failed or been forced apart by trauma is to either:
a. Put your finger in the tonehole and from the outside use lighter fluid and then feel if it has seeped through.
b. Use a localised leak light (a single bulb as opposed to a strip light or strip of lights) inside the tone hole preferably whilst you're in a darkened room with the curtains drawn. When using this method try not to press too hard on the keys.

Do you have any more pictures of the sax

 

[Tobes]

and there was me thinking the neck was basically OK - pics attached. Great advice thanks Griff136. On the neck the small imprint is probably OK but the larger longer one form the octave mech pressing against it, I can feel it from the inside. So should try to get the moved out, somehow. Any tricks I can try at home?

Thing is, the sax sounds awesome, I'm liking it more and more each day. I think it is actually darker and more resonant than the Handcraft, which is an incredible sounding sax. But...the dents have got me thinking...could sound even better if some sorted...Overall I'm keeping it.

Looking carefully at the sax I wouldn't be surprise if at some point it was owned by a high school student that used to take the sax to school every day in their school bag without the case. Either that or maybe it had been used in banger racing for a couple of seaons, possibly draged behind or glued to bumper 🙁🙁

 

[nigeld]

@Tobes - @griff136 is a first-class sax repairer based in Exmouth. I can heartily recommend him. Why not agree a time when you can take the sax for him to look at and see what needs doing.

 

[griff136]

The tenon has been resoldered at some point so it would be worth checking it make sure there are no leaks there - very straightforward seal the mouthpiece end with a rubber bung/plasticine/blue-tac/cork, hold down the octave pad and blow in the tenon end. you will either hear or feel if there is a leak. if there is a leak on the crook, you will then need to find where it is coming from. good old fairy liquid in a little water and put it round the solder join, blow again and if theres a leak there bubbles will appear.

Regarding dent removal - its really a matter of knowledge and the right tools - if you don't have both you are most likely to cause further damage by either pushing a dent out too far or creating another one elsewhere.

And in the best traditions of Blue Peter here are some I did earlier

 

[nigeld]

And in the best traditions of Blue Peter here are some I did earlier

They only count if you used cardboard kitchen towel rolls and sticky-back plastic.

 

[thomsax]

Did a jam tonight with it and it sounded awesome,

Most "The Martins" are strong players. Leave the sax as is. Just make sure that you can play from top to bottom. Have fun with your sax and spread the wonderful Martin sound.

 

[griff136]

Most "The Martins" are strong players. Leave the sax as is. Just make sure that you can play from top to bottom. Have fun with your sax and spread the wonderful Martin sound.

Why leave it "as is" if it is leaking?

 

[thomsax]

Why leave it "as is" if it is leaking?

Maybe I'm unclear. Playing from top botom means that the leaks must be fixed.

 

[griff136]

pretty sure it doesn't need a full overhaul - couple of leaks that's all. The keywork is good........