All profit supporting special needs music education and Help Musicians
SYOS

Saxophones The future of Keilwerth

aldevis

Surrealist Contributor.
Cafe Moderator
Messages
12,126
Since I was thinking of maybe buying one at some point in my life:

Our history | Julius Keilwerth

we'll see...
 
Last edited:

Nick Wyver

noisy
Subscriber
Messages
5,953
CDC Enterprises?

If it was a British company I would expect that to be an April Fool thing.
 

aldevis

Surrealist Contributor.
Cafe Moderator
Messages
12,126
CDC Enterprises?
If it was a British company I would expect that to be an April Fool thing.
It doesn't seem so. I am expecting top managers paying some useless consultants to start outsourcing essential things and cutting costs: "Shellac? What is shellac? We don't need no shellac! Glue is more cost effective!"

But maybe I am just a pessimist
 

kevgermany

ex Landrover Nut
Subscriber
Messages
21,947
Might be good news:

http://www.crunchbase.com/financial-organization/cdc-enterprises-2
http://www.unquote.com/france/offic...ons-capital-buys-buffet-crampon-argos-soditic

Investors these days seem to be more aware of the risks invovled in putting in their own management which doesn't understand the business. But they do expect big returns on investment, which tends to drain money out of the acquired company.

But with the French govt behind it, it might be OK, cos they like to preserve/develop French businesses, not strip them. May be wrong of course. Hope not.
 

milandro

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,483
Since I was thinking of maybe buying one at some point in my life:

http://www.julius-keilwerth.com/en/news.php?mode=printNews&nid=899

we'll see...
not nice......... it means that the take over of Keilwerth was a financial operation that could have been based on very thin grounds.....we shall see but it probably means more people being laid off and further restructuring
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Kingsleyhk

Senior Member
Messages
508
They'll almost certainly screw it up - having been through more M & As than I care to think about it, it's almost always a disaster. Usually the new shareholders want something different from the management/current employees, and sooner or later something gives - usually product quality!

So, if you want one, buy it quickly!
 

aldevis

Surrealist Contributor.
Cafe Moderator
Messages
12,126
On one hand I am happy that the French gov. is supporting Buffet, on the other, Keilwerth is German (is it?).
 

milandro

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,483
well, Keilwerth was bought by Buffet and that was probably an operation which was made when the financial situation of the company might have been better than it is now in crisis times
 

Tenor Viol

Full of frets in North Shropshire
Subscriber
Messages
5,946
Looks a bit like a govt run venture capital type scheme. I suspect it's aimed at trying to support French companies. I read my way thourgh the French statement bit it didn't say a lot other than they make clarinets, oboes, saxes etc. I quite enjoyed that the French word for euphonium is, errmmm euphonium!
 

aldevis

Surrealist Contributor.
Cafe Moderator
Messages
12,126
On Le Figaro there was an interesting article about Adolf Sax/Selmer and Buffet Crampon.
I am somehow proud of the fact that we are still discussing two brands more than a century old (I do not have a Buffet clarinet yet, few Selmers)
 

Tenor Viol

Full of frets in North Shropshire
Subscriber
Messages
5,946
On Le Figaro there was an interesting article about Adolf Sax/Selmer and Buffet Crampon.
I am somehow proud of the fact that we are still discussing two brands more than a century old (I do not have a Buffet clarinet yet, few Selmers)
To be fair, Yamaha have been making musical instruments since 1887.... (pianos and reed organs)
 

aldevis

Surrealist Contributor.
Cafe Moderator
Messages
12,126
But Adolph Sax wasn't one of the founders, and they did not invent the boehm clarinet.
 

milandro

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,483
No indeed they didn’t, but they did practically revolutionise the student market with instruments that were both affordable and reliable and delivered a profit to the companies (which in the late ’70 nobody else seemed to be able to do and by the ’80 lots of companies were going out of business and some did or were integrated in larger groups).


Going back to the future of Keilwerth and Buffet, I sincerely hope that they realise that even Yamaha has had to change and adapt and having a company with several hundred people both in France and Germany will be very difficult to manage these day when the industry is completely changed.

It has been my opinion for a while that the European (and American) industry has to come to realise that the time for the large industrial production is gone for us. We are no longer able to compete in the market segments that require large industrial facilities and huge amount of workers but we are certainly capable to offer excellence and exceptional production when the others offer low price and an average product.

The future of the old industrial nations is in exploiting their potential for classy, well made and well finished products in a context of smaller companies with fewer employees and product range.

Surprisingly, the customers for these companies will come from the old world and from the new emerging economies!

The more the Chinese , Indians, Brazilians, have disposable income the more they will be requiring products that their industry cannot or is not interested in producing.


Let’s not forget also the power of image here. Haynes flutes (American company) have an entry model made in China. I have personally witnessed an order for such a flute, from a Chinese customer to a Dutch shop who was selling a Chinese made flute sold through an American company to a Customer in China!

We have the know how, the image, the tradition. Let’s use it!
 

aldevis

Surrealist Contributor.
Cafe Moderator
Messages
12,126
The future of the old industrial nations is in exploiting their potential for classy, well made and well finished products in a context of smaller companies with fewer employees and product range.
Totally agree with you, except for the world "classy".

But this is exactly my fear when I see such a large acquisition. Company managers are usually too stupid and short sighted to understand that, let's say, Inderbinen or Pillinger are successful brands.

Numbers are not big enough for large, packed of debts, companies. A Buffet B12 (student clarinet) is too expensive compared with a Chinese made, and a Buffet R13 is not as good as it used to be.

A Selmer tenor in not worth 4k, but a R&C is probably worth 3.5k (in commercial terms of costs/quality). My fear is that the new management could start a competition with BW and Mauriat in order to look for big numbers, leaving the know-how of B&C and Keilwerth die.

And no, I will not accept that nowadays I have to adapt to the standardization of taste and lowered quality. I play saxophone also because I know I can make a unique sound in a unique moment for my audience, and no recording device can fully reproduce it.
 

milandro

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,483
I thought you might have read it a “ class” thing as in “ for rich people only” but I admit that it could be coming dow to the same result nonetheless
 

aldevis

Surrealist Contributor.
Cafe Moderator
Messages
12,126
I thought you might have read it a “ class” thing as in “ for rich people only” but I admit that it could be coming dow to the same result nonetheless
My actual concern was that nothing really classy can come from a continent that still includes Essex (yes: UK is in Europe, the Old Continent).
 
Saxholder Pro

Staff online

Help!Mailing List
Top Bottom