Stecher - Bearer of reasonable news...

[DavidUK]

Stecher (Kohlert 57) alto's here. One small dent on bell lip but not affecting the rolled lip itself.

Low C guard appears to have had a light knock, although not damaged itself, which has transmitted through the middle guard leg and dipped the side of the rolled tone hole by about 1-2mm. Needs tapping back into shape.

There are four or five other tone holes, particularly the palm keys and a few other small ones, which look a little uneven, but the low C is the worst.
More photos here: http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/24663984

No body tube dents visible, although there may be minor ones causing the other tone hole distortion.
All keys and rods moving freely.
One domed screw missing from a guard foot.
B bis pearl missing - would need a replacement.

Neck undented, but no plating to it whatsoever. It may not be the original. Would need cyanide re-plating.
Also needs re-corking. Neck tightening screw missing.

The only difference I can see between this stencil and a Kohlert 57 labelled horn is the plain body to bow brace. The 57 is supposedly one of, if not THE, best of the Kohlerts.

There are a few patches of bare brass on the body and bell. I've done some research and for immersion plating this seems THE stuff to get: https://www.hswalsh.com/product/silver-solution-1x150ml-sf01a
Has anyone ever tried this kind of "touch up" approach for small areas of brass?

My plan would be to disassemble, touch up plating, clean, polish silver plating, re-assemble (re-consider!), send to a tech for a full re-pad/overhaul. I may get the neck plated and re-cork beforehand as I know a great plater.

Or... I could save a whole load of hassle and sell it on as is! It has a certain charm though!

Well... shall I save this one?

 

[Ads]

Looks good - Kev is the Kohlert expert on here , maybe he`ll spot any other diffs

See how it plays , if it struggles send to Connollys for a "get it running" as a compromise between repadding a horn that`ll be hard to recoup money on and selling it as unplayable (also not an easy sell unless very cheap) .....

 

[kevgermany]

There are a few patches of bare brass on the body and bell. I've done some research and for immersion plating this seems THE stuff to get: https://www.hswalsh.com/product/silver-solution-1x150ml-sf01a
Has anyone ever tried this kind of "touch up" approach for small areas of brass?

Unless it's for electro plating, I wouldn't bother - the layer of Silver will be thin and won't stick. In the US there are home electro plating kits available, which use a wand to put the silver just where you want it.

Pity about the dings/tone holes, but a good tech should be able to sort it out. Don't let them file them.

 

[DavidUK]

Talking to a good tech about it currently. Tone hole rims are complete and unadulterated, if a little wavy!

The Silver liquid stops putting down molecules as soon at the "battery" connection between the silver particles and bare brass has been switched off by a single layer of coverage, hence the thin layer achieved by this method. And of course it's where the wear is, at the contact points.

I guess I could try it for the less handled body tube, bell, and key cup areas and have the touch pieces - palm keys etc - properly plated? To re-plate the whole thing will be uneconomical.

 

[thomsax]

How is the Stecher/Kohlert alto playing? I have some German saxes with RTH and there are some toneholes that also are uneven. But they are playing ok. I re-padded my horns with Ferree's B43 or B44 pads (small "resonator/reflector/tone-booster/padcover"). Some of the keycups were also uneven, Probably bent to make the pad/keycups to seal to the toneholes.

Nice sax! I like Kohlert saxes.

 

[DavidUK]

Not playing well, struggled to get all the notes easily. What I expected of course.

My metal polisher (gunsmith and gun finish guru) doesn't do silver plate and his silver plater in Manchester has retired. He explained the important part is super shiny prep work, degreased, nickel plating first, then a "flash" of silver over, polished with rouge. He suggested nickel plating as an alternative as this is what gives the depth of finish.
This would mean plating the whole sax, so again a no go, although when he stripped and polished my Grassi his price was very reasonable.

I'll do more research...

 

[thomsax]

To fix RTH ...

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[DavidUK]

Thanks for the video. @griff136 and @jbtsax - is this the way you do it?

I stripped the sax down today and all the RTH rims are undamaged, i.e. none squashed, flattened, filed, and all have a nice shiny (once polished) silver plate finish to them. The ones that are uneven are only slightly so and should be relatively easy to fix - not that I'm going to have a go, as the sax needs re-padding anyhow.

Nicely engineered too, but it's German so what do you expect!?

@kevgermany - you may wish to move this thread to the technical section as I will be doing some more prep work prior to it going for it's re-pad/overhaul.

Looks likely it will go to Griff. I like his sense of humour and have noticed others are happy with his work. I had asked Charlie Connolly to do another "Grassi" for me, but he retires in a week and isn't taking on any more jobs. A great loss to the tech world.

 

[jbtsax]

There are a few patches of bare brass on the body and bell. I've done some research and for immersion plating this seems THE stuff to get: https://www.hswalsh.com/product/silver-solution-1x150ml-sf01a
Has anyone ever tried this kind of "touch up" approach for small areas of brass?

I have used the Silversmith brand of rub on plating before. As the tech said, it is quite thin so it is not practical for areas that are typically rubbed by the player---which is where the bare brass areas are in the first place. The Caswell Plug-N-Plate lays down a thicker plating, but it is still not as durable as having it professionally plated. On occasion I will use the Caswell kit to plate something like a palm key and then give it a couple of coats of clear lacquer to help it wear longer. But this is still not as good as having it professionally plated.

In terms of the rolled tonehole leveling video, since I like to use a sax work fixture I only insert a dent rod into the sax to raise low areas of a tonehole when there is no other way. Typically I use a half round dent rod guide from Ferree's Tools shown below and a homemade T-handle steel lever to "pry" up the low areas. I also tap down the high spots using a plastic hammer. In those cases where the rolled tonehole has to be filed a bit to make it perfectly level, I use craft sanding sticks and magnification to return the filed portion to its original rounded profile.

 

[DavidUK]

I bought some "Sheffco" silver plating liquid, now branded HS Walsh.
Tried "plating" some keys last night:

1/ Silver cloth to polish finish. It's already fairly clean.
2/ 1500 wet'n'dry used dry to feather the brass spots into the edge of the existing plating.
3/ Brasso to polish the area to be plated, especially along any transitional "lines", brass to silver plate.
4/ Isopropyl Alcohol to clean.
5/ Plating solution.
6/ Repeat 5.
7/ Polish with soft cloth.

Up close I can still see a feint line where the silver plate joins the new plating. Overall, very good.
I'll try some wear tests, and post some before & after pics when I get time.

 

[DavidUK]

I tried a test area on the body... The bell, cleaned up a tiny bit, has this brassy patch...

The area is polished with silver polish, then the bare patch with Brasso...

After polishing, the area is cleaned off with Isopropyl Alchohol. See next post...

 

[DavidUK]

HS Walsh silver solution is dabbed onto the cleaned bare brass patch and surrounding area. As the reaction takes place the area of bare brass turns black...

The area is rubbed with the silver applicator pad (make up remover pads are ideal, buy from Wilko) then polished with a soft cloth...

The secret appears to be to get the edges, silver to brass, as smooth as possible, polish to a high shine, clean meticulously, apply the solution several times, polishing each time.

Once the entire body is silver polished to remove dirt and blemishes, all the brass patches will be treated this way. I'll redo this bit as I'm not entirely happy with the edges or high shine. The great thing about doing this is you can simply start over.

I've already done 75% of the removed key work. VERY time consuming!

 

[Jeanette]

Nice work David

Jx

 

[Melissa]

Looks good, I feel for you! Must have taken an age @DavidUK I have one here, also a Kohlert but Dearman Super and done a patch today also on the bell...funny that, almost in the same place! Whilst this looks pretty excellent when done, I believe it lacks in longevity. You know there is a kit for plating small items, First Brass Northants have one and I have had some bits off of (TRUMPETS ha haa) replated, it is really good.

I have one in my wish list, it would be perfect for doing key cups and such!

 

[ProfJames]

Well done sir

 

[Ivan]

Insanely meticulous

Well done that man