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Saxophones Spotted a GRAFTON for sale !!

That's an original MIR Halesowen sticker on the 21 case from when the Toys and Charlie Connolly worked together.
Iirc they split up with the Toys moving to Walsall as MIR and Charile to Great Barr as Connolly-MIR. The latter became Sheward-MIR when Charlie retired some years back.
I remember Charlie retiring, he worked on a Jupiter for me if I remember rightly - funny how both the 21s I`ve had , have had that sticker on ... I seem to remember you visting the "toys" shop who had a few horns for sale .

Your 21 looks in similar nick to my 23 (Vito). There's just something about these older ones which makes you defer to them whatever "better" or more recent Yamaha model you might compare them to. Can't explain what.
Agreed totally - yes the early Pruple 62 I had was like a slicker version of the same horn (and the best Alto I`ve ever played, Selmers included) but these older 2 series models have amazing character, I part-exed the 21 for the Pruple 62 and wished I hadn`t later on as I sold the 62 (couldn`t warrant such an expensive alto and had a SA80 to pay for) , even when I had the 62 I missed the 21 . as you can imagine this one is staying ..
 
I went just the once to the Toys MIR to try a used TJ Raw alto. They'd "serviced" it but it played so badly I walked away and never went again. Having said that I then bought a brand new TJ Raw alto and that was 'orrible too! Maybe it's just me and RAWs generally? Weirdly I found that one in the warehouse of Selmer Holland's distributors. No, I hadn't broken in, I know someone there. It was a demo TJ had sent them but they'd never opened. Selmer snobbishness perhaps?

Charlie was a different kettle of fish - an absolute craftsman, everything perfection.
 
That was it David - a TJ RAW, I seem to remember some controversy about the Toys at the time too mentioned on here by someone I can`t remember .. Charlie was superb, I guess everyone had to retire sometime but that was a real loss ... Stephen Howard is another of those rare craftsmen Sax whisperers , I still can`t believe the amount of stuff he found wrong with that brand new Japanese made YAS62 Mk3 I had back in 2013 ( I ought to have returned it to Yamaha really as it must have been a Friday Nighter after his report but I knew he`d make it play better than any replacement would have) - I stuck with old Yamahas after that and not regretted it .. I only played a RAW tenor, never got to play an Alto , I still think that YTS62 Mk2 Silverplated I bought from DaveySax was better and the SA80 in another league again but each to their own ..
 
Anyone in NI fancy a good condition Grafton for £400? Spotted one for sale.
 
Anyone in NI fancy a good condition Grafton for £400? Spotted one for sale.
Found one in Antrim for £600 - is there another one or do you know what the lowest he'll trake is?
 
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Told me he'd take £400 an hour ago. He's going to do a condition video tomorrow evening.

For £200 I'd probably go to NI to collect!
If it is undamaged then that is indeed a bargain.

Graftons are fascinating instruments and both he rarity and looks are what makes them collectable, but as mentioned, collectors only want undamaged instruments in original condition (which is partly why we have the stupid concern of relacqering in general)

For players graftons aren't so good, not because of the sound, but because of the squishy pads they came with and the action in genral is not to everyone's liking due to the springing.

One problem with graftons is that once there is a crack, it cannot be mended invisibly so bye bye collector value. A knock that just causes a small fixable dent on a brass horn, would render a Grafton uselss for collectors. You can't even get replica replacement keyguards like I think maybe you can with Conn 28m or Tonking III

So I'd say anything in playable condition but with repaired damage is likely to be worth < $700 IMO. If not playable then I'd say it has maybe $200 max value as a lampstand or wall hanger because the cost of puyting it in playing condition is huge.

But if it is undamaged and with nice originall lacquer, then at least 2000 IMO. I value mine at more than that because it has had the action vastly improved with less squishy pads so much nicer to play, but also does have value to a collector because if they think appropriate I still have the original pads that can go back in to restore to pristine original condition.

Collector vale really depends on what someone might pay and I think it could be very high oif someone really needs one and isn't aware of that cheap one in NI. (If indeed it's undamaged)
 
There’s another one available here, albeit considerably more money;


Given a few have come up recently is this the start of collectors cashing in their gains or do they come up fairly frequently?
 
Who knows what the motive to sell is. Prices for all horns are all over the place. I roughly break it down into four categories:
  1. Seller has no idea about what they're selling (or it's a scam/counterfiet). Could be from an elderly or deceased relative, offspring who left it behind, found in the loft, bought at a car boot to hang on the wall. Priced very low, 1/3 of used retail or less. These sell immediately if a popular instrument. Warning!: The horn may be rubbish/need work. Buy if you are confident you can identify any defects and know repair prices well. The £400 Grafton above falls into this category.
  2. Seller knows what they have, used to play perhaps, wants to get rid to raise cash. Priced at 1/2 to 2/3 of used retail. Some knowledge of condition and what needs doing. Buy a popular horn here carefully and you won't lose money on resale. Still watch out for unreported defects.
  3. Seller is a retailer, as with Windblowers' £1375 Grafton above. High price reflects their overheads, and a better chance it'll work and/or be as described. May have warranty. Will have some comeback if it's not right. Buy if you want security and/or don't know about saxophones or which one to buy, or want an unrestored collector's piece :rolleyes:.
  4. Seller thinks their horn is worth as much, or more, as it is new! Avoid.
 
. . .
5. Seller thinks it's worth a fortune because it's "vintage".
 
6. It's me and I want more because it's a special one that @Stephen Howard sweated blood over and cost him more in swearbox deposits that I paid him.
 
Hang on... hang on... I think people are adding their own categories... :doh:

This really mustn't continue...

:optimistic:
 
Did anyone ever buy the £200 one?
 
Seller has a couple of people coming to see it this week. Don't forget it was £400 he wanted.
 
400 is dirt cheap for a grafton if its half decent
 
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