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Soprano with bottom F# linked with 4 keys (instead of 3?)

zannad

Member
Messages
410
On all saxes I'd tried so far (until recently) the RH F# is linked with 3 keys in all...but on my newly bought Rampone & Cazzani vintage soprano (70's) there are 4 keys which operate in unison when the low F# is pressed - so I can play mid C with the right hand...the trill between mid B and mid C is easier with this but maybe I'm missing some other trills? and in truth, right now I see this kind of linkage has more of an hindrance...

Has anyone ever come across any sax with this particular linkage? what are the benefits?

(Milandro, the expert on Italian saxes...give us a hint)
 

old git

Tremendous Bore
Messages
5,545
Wood and brass winds usually have cross fingerings that provide alternative and sometimes better tuning. Is this what R & C are aiming to achieve?

Just a guess.
 

aldevis

Surrealist Contributor.
Cafe Moderator
Messages
12,126
Does it mean that you can play C2 ooo|oxo and Bb2 xoo|xoo?
I don't understand if it is a tuning thing or an alternate fingering oddity...
 

griff136

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,048
On all saxes I'd tried so far (until recently) the RH F# is linked with 3 keys in all...but on my newly bought Rampone & Cazzani vintage soprano (70's) there are 4 keys which operate in unison when the low F# is pressed - so I can play mid C with the right hand...the trill between mid B and mid C is easier with this but maybe I'm missing some other trills? and in truth, right now I see this kind of linkage has more of an hindrance...

Has anyone ever come across any sax with this particular linkage? what are the benefits?

(Milandro, the expert on Italian saxes...give us a hint)
Can you tell us which 4 keys operate in unison?
 

zannad

Member
Messages
410
Does it mean that you can play C2 ooo|oxo and Bb2 xoo|xoo?
I don't understand if it is a tuning thing or an alternate fingering oddity...
Well, if I want a quick trill Bb2 to C2 I use xoo|oxo and ooo|oxo (far easier)...no tuning issues here, the sax is well tuned.
I think it's better if I post a picture (or even a clip)...

(Milandrooooo).
 

zannad

Member
Messages
410
the first picture show the open position - then on the second I press bottom F...as you can see (hopefully) 4 keys are now closed, the extra one is at the top (above B).
All RH keys operate in a similar manner...


 

jbtsax

Well-Known Member
Subscriber
Messages
8,014
Cool! What happens when you press just the Bis key itself? Does that also close the small keycup above the B (called the C)? It would be great if you could show a closeup of the back side of the upper stack to see the connecting mechanism.
 

aldevis

Surrealist Contributor.
Cafe Moderator
Messages
12,126
Well, if I want a quick trill Bb2 to C2 I use xoo|oxo and ooo|oxo (far easier)...no tuning issues here, the sax is well tuned.
Intriguing... I wonder how this affects springs' response
 

zannad

Member
Messages
410
Cool! What happens when you press just the Bis key itself? Does that also close the small keycup above the B (called the C)? It would be great if you could show a closeup of the back side of the upper stack to see the connecting mechanism.

You're right...the Bis key is linked to the keycup above B - there may be other oddities with the mechanics of this sax but these don't have any major negative impact when playing normally; nor in my way of playing anyhow and too often I leave some RH keys pressed down when it isn't needed (which might be a bad habit) - it took me days to notice something wasn't as expected (that's a good sign) - and then, there are some new trills to discover (thanks to Aldevis for noticing the Bb-C trill - very neat indeed)...
 

zannad

Member
Messages
410
As none has come out with some explanation about this peculiar sax, I might well conclude that I've just bought another rarity...
Interestingly, I've collected by now 5 vintage Italian saxes and 4 of these sports some unique features: 2 Borgani were designed without certain keys (ministeriali), another Borgani tenor has a top F# operable with the left hand and now this Rampone with linkages on steroids!!
Just wondering why this latter's mechanics haven't been implemented on other saxes (not on larger scale anyhow as we don't know if other saxes out there have similar linkage systems) - maybe it's too costly? Too fragile? As it stands, the Rampone plays well - apart from the extra trills, the tuning is better than in most other saxes I own (and this is the only Soprano I have).
 

aldevis

Surrealist Contributor.
Cafe Moderator
Messages
12,126
That key is actually quite common, to compensate octaves.

Still the OP is puzzling me.
 

zannad

Member
Messages
410
That key is actually quite common, to compensate octaves.

Still the OP is puzzling me.
LOL....what do I know about sopranos eh?
Never mind about the linking mechanics, I've checked the R&C site and I'll send a quick email...stay tuned, the mystery shall be unfolded soon.
 

zannad

Member
Messages
410
Here's the initial replay from R&C:
"SAX BUILT to early 1970's model of transition as it has mechanical left pinkie old fashioned but left paddle keys already "updated". Considered a good indeed excellent sax studio."

I hope there is more to come as I didn't explain the actual mechanics (I've sent another email).
 
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