Tech/maintenance Soprano Saxophone-- Middle C in Tune, C3 Very Sharp!

[DesertRoads]

Both of my Soprano Saxophone's have an issue where low C is perfectly in tune (according to two of my tuners), and middle C (C2) is VERY sharp. I'm curious which key/s I need to adjust to get them in tune? I know it's not a "me" issue as I have zero issues on any of my other Saxophones. I've tried adjusting my embouchure accordingly to see if that does anything as well as a variety of mouthpieces, so since both my straight and curved soprano are newer, I'm thinking they are just not adjusted properly.

 

[rhysonsax]

The title of your thread says "Middle C in Tune, C3 very sharp" but you have written in the post that "middle C (C2) is VERY sharp". Which is it ?

How does the side C fingering sound ? It is sometimes called the "ballad C" as it can sound better in tune and clearer than the more conventional C and so may be a better choice for an exposed long note in a slow/ballad performance.

Rhys

 

[Pete Effamy]

If you are biting (playing too tight) the effect on middle C will be far less than on an octave higher and the notes surrounding.

Suggest pushing mouthpiece on, tuning to middle C (you’ll need to open up embouchure and throat) and then try the octave above. Are they closer?

 

[jonf]

I agree with the comments from @rhysonsax and @Pete Effamy

I'd also suggest locking the tuners in a drawer and tuning by ear. No sax is 100% in tune, and chasing perfection on a tuner is a task leading to the road to madness.

 

[rhysonsax]

And of course the soprano isn't just another saxophone. It has its own challenges with pitch control and small changes in embouchure and voicing can lead to very noticeable pitch issues.

You say this happens on both your sopranos - what makes and models are they ?

Rhys

 

[DesertRoads]

The title of your thread says "Middle C in Tune, C3 very sharp" but you have written in the post that "middle C (C2) is VERY sharp". Which is it ?

How does the side C fingering sound ? It is sometimes called the "ballad C" as it can sound better in tune and clearer than the more conventional C and so may be a better choice for an exposed long note in a slow/ballad performance.

Rhys

Yeah... I messed up the title and forgot to edit it.

 

[DesertRoads]

I agree with the comments from @rhysonsax and @Pete Effamy

I'd also suggest locking the tuners in a drawer and tuning by ear. No sax is 100% in tune, and chasing perfection on a tuner is a task leading to the road to madness.

I'm partially tone deaf due to an accident, so I utilize tuners to help. I agree that Saxophones are rarely completely in tune.

It's interesting though, I can play my sopranino in tune from top to bottom, as well as my Tenors and Altos. Perhaps it's just like you guys mentioned. I have heard that playing soprano is difficult, even though I do well on sopranino which has a much smaller mouthpiece. So I'll keep working at it, trying different mouthpieces and reeds to see what I can come up with. Thank you guys for your input.

 

[turf3]

C? As in C natural? Fingered with the standard fingering, LH2 and no octave key? How about "high" C, fingered LH2 with octave key? And when you say "low C" you mean all the fingers down, plus RH little finger? How about the two all-open C#s?

And quantify "very sharp", please.

 

[DesertRoads]

C? As in C natural? Fingered with the standard fingering, LH2 and no octave key? How about "high" C, fingered LH2 with octave key? And when you say "low C" you mean all the fingers down, plus RH little finger? How about the two all-open C#s?

And quantify "very sharp", please.

It's my favorite commenter. ;-). Yes, C natural all fingers down with pinky is perfectly in tune. Middle C with just the middle left finger. I actually figured it out. It was me. I was using a 2 reed on my Selmer D mouthpiece, and it was closing up. I switched over to my A7 metal mouthpiece with 2.5 reeds and am perfectly in tune top to bottom. So I just need to work on my embouchure, and breath control.

 

[Dr G]

It's my favorite commenter. ;-). Yes, C natural all fingers down with pinky is perfectly in tune. Middle C with just the middle left finger. I actually figured it out. It was me. I was using a 2 reed on my Selmer D mouthpiece, and it was closing up. I switched over to my A7 metal mouthpiece with 2.5 reeds and am perfectly in tune top to bottom. So I just need to work on my embouchure, and breath control.

Consider also the possibility of using a stiffer reed on the Selmer D. That’s a really nice mouthpiece for sop.

 

[DesertRoads]

Consider also the possibility of using a stiffer reed on the Selmer D. That’s a really nice mouthpiece for sop.

Good advice. Thank you.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Over blow C1 to C2. Adjust the mouthpiece till overblown C1 matches C2. Check by comparing more long tube fingerings to short tube fingerings.

Harmonics don't lie.

Consider also that a mouthpiece mismatch may be the problem with intonation. The internal volume of the mouthpiece has to match the volume of the missing cone.

Soprano isn't just another saxophone. A millimeter movement in mouthpiece position can cause or cure intonation problems.

 

[DesertRoads]

Over blow C1 to C2. Adjust the mouthpiece till overblown C1 matches C2. Check by comparing more long tube fingerings to short tube fingerings.

Harmonics don't lie.

Consider also that a mouthpiece mismatch may be the problem with intonation. The internal volume of the mouthpiece has to match the volume of the missing cone.

Soprano isn't just another saxophone. A millimeter movement in mouthpiece position can cause or cure intonation problems.

I only have two soprano Saxophone mouthpieces, so I will work with what I have, and if I can't get the desired results with reed and embouchure changes, then I will take the horn in to have a tech check it out. If all good, then I will explore other mouthpieces. But I am hoping to work with the MP's I have, as I don't play soprano often.

 

[skeller047]

I want to stress what Colin said about overblowing. It’s way easier to play in tune if the horn is “in tune with itself”.

I use B, instead of C, but either will work. Play C2, then “slur” to C1 without changing embouchure or air flow at all. You should hear C2 again, but as the first overtone of C1. Adjust the mouthpiece so those two are in tune with one another.

This works because moving the mouthpiece will affect the normal C2 much more than overblown C1. So if normal C2 is flat, push in; sharp, pull out. Once you find where they are in tune, adjust your embouchure and voicing so you play in tune with the mouthpiece at that point.

If playing in tune when the horn is in tune with itself is difficult, it may point to a mouthpiece mismatch. Though since you are complaining about the Selmer being out, I doubt it. They normally play in tune on all sopranos, at least the Selmers I have tried.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I'm partially tone deaf due to an accident, so I utilize tuners to help.

Of course I’m sure you know that playing in tune with a tuner and playing in tune with an accompaniment can be two different things

I actually figured it out. It was me. I was using a 2 reed on my Selmer D mouthpiece, and it was closing up. I switched over to my A7 metal mouthpiece with 2.5 reeds and am perfectly in tune top to bottom.

This implies it could just be the mouthpiece difference, so what happens if you use a 2.5 with the Selmer?

If tuning or intonation gets better purely with a harder reed I would always be wary as it might imply an issue with your embouchure or breath support.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Though since you are complaining about the Selmer being out, I doubt it. They normally play in tune on all sopranos, at least the Selmers I have tried.

We (Ed Pillinger and I) did some experimenting with opening up the throat/chamber on Selmer soprano mouthpiece and I’d find some intonation improvement.

 

[turf3]

Of course, there are now something like four or five recent-production Selmer soprano mouthpieces, so it may be helpful to identify which one it is. They're all of them what I would call "slightly small chambers".