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Side Key Risers

2toneblew

C'mon Genie, third wish - to sound warm and fuzzy
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64
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Terrace , BC, Canada
I'm a beginner with big hands. I have installed a set of Oleg risers. The risers put the E key at a comfortable height, but the C and Bb are too high. Ideally I like the dished side key structure on the vintage 10M or Aristocrats much better than the flat keys on my YTS62. I'm wondering if there are alternative risers that provide a dished form? Or could the Olegs be cut down and silver soldered to the desired height? Based on price the Oleg keys must be 24k gold, but before I start cutting , I probably should get some advice. Unfortunately I'm unaware of any local techs that do silver solder so would have to send out or wait til travel takes me to one.
 

kevgermany

ex Landrover Nut
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You don't want silver solder here, good chance of the key falling apart. And you'll ruin the lacquer. But which Bb and C are we talking about? RH? These can be bent a little, but you'll need to fit bigger corks under them.

For any key good risers can be made from Sugru, which is easy to remove, but stays put until then. Or cork, which you can glue on which shellac or contact adhesive. A bit of a clean up job afterwards if you need to remove them, though. Both materials can be made to the exact height you need. Cork cuts cleanly with a sharp knife or safety razor blade. And can be sanded for a smooth finish. But don't sand the key at the same time....
 

2toneblew

C'mon Genie, third wish - to sound warm and fuzzy
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64
Locality
Terrace , BC, Canada
These are the right hand side keys. I would remove them before cutting or soldering them, if that were my chosen remedy and if the metal used by Oleg can be soldered. I do like the feel of the metal risers. Have tried the rubber Runyon risers but found they didn't work very well for me and did not provide that dished assembly I find comfortable.
The sugru may be worth a try, at least I would have a template of riser heights that worked for me .
 

nigeld

Too many mouthpieces
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Bristol, UK
I have used Sugru for left and right hand key risers and it works very well. I have Sugru palm key risers on all my saxophones, plus a couple of key extenders on my vintage Buesher. You can mould it to any shape you like and if you change your mind, you can get it off without harming the lacquer. But it takes about 24 hours to set, so you can't play the sax during this time. It comes in various colours. Woody Brown is OK for key risers.

Buy | Sugru

I'm not sure whether it is easy to get it on your side of the big pond, but there are similar materials.
 

jbtsax

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Beautiful Springville, Utah USA
I like to use Jett Basic Plastiform from Otto Frei Jewelry Supply. An example of a bari sax D palm key is shown below.
DSC00304.JPG
 

2toneblew

C'mon Genie, third wish - to sound warm and fuzzy
Messages
64
Locality
Terrace , BC, Canada
Been wondering why Selmer used a flat RH side key arrangement , while the 50s era Conn And Beuscher had the E key raised and a dished assembly. Obviously Yamaha copied the Mk6 , so although I find this flat arrangement not currently appropriate, should I ignore any modification and adapt to what the 62 has? Anyone doubling between horns with these different key styles?
 

Ivan

Undecided
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Peeblesshire
I play Selmer with large mitts and I've never thought the right hand side keys were a problem

The left side keys, though.......
 

spike

Old Indian
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Half way up a hill
Get yerself a JK SX90, they have adjustable LH palm keys - "Vorsprung durch Technik" Ha ha :thumbs:
 

jbtsax

Well-Known Member
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Beautiful Springville, Utah USA
Been wondering why Selmer used a flat RH side key arrangement , while the 50s era Conn And Beuscher had the E key raised and a dished assembly. Obviously Yamaha copied the Mk6 , so although I find this flat arrangement not currently appropriate, should I ignore any modification and adapt to what the 62 has? Anyone doubling between horns with these different key styles?
This page Music Medic has some excellent photos of what you are referring to. I have never thought much about it. I just play high E with whatever shaped key is on the sax.
 

kevgermany

ex Landrover Nut
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Just north of Munich
Just found this, an excellent video on making risers from cork.

 

MandyH

Sax-Mad fiend!
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The Malverns, Worcs
I second (third, fourth....) sugru!

I used it on my previous Bari to help me reach the Bb LH little finger Key.

It moulds well and sets to a soft but firm rubber, and it stays on just fine on its own.
 

sdt99

Member
Messages
177
I make my own risers from cork similar to the video above, both for the palm keys and the right hand trill keys.
 

kevgermany

ex Landrover Nut
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What I really liked was the layered approach to getting the cork to fit the rounded keys. That and the demo of superb workmanship.
 

Jazzaferri

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2,702
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Victoria BC Canada
Another option is JB Plastic Weld Firmer and a little more permanent than Sugru but easily formed with a box knife and sand paper.
WIN_20170417_09_04_53_Pro.jpg
 

jbtsax

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Beautiful Springville, Utah USA
@David Dorning Plastiform comes in small white plastic pellets. When these are heated in boiling water, the pellets turn transparent and become "plastic" so that they can be combined, shaped and molded. I have found that when molding the plastic it is helpful to wear latex gloves and to do it on wax paper to keep the plastic smooth. When removing the plastic from the hot water there is a window of time before it cools and hardens becoming solid white again.

One of the great advantages of plastiform is that it can be reinserted into hot water to reshape or to remove completely leaving no trace or damage to the key. I am currently working on a way to electroplate the plastic
with brass or silver plating so that it matches the rest of the saxophone. The photo below is a Buescher curved soprano that I made palm key risers for. These were designed to snap on or off.

True Tone Soprano Ebay ad photos F.jpg
 

Targa

Among the pigeons
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KIC 8462852
If anyone wants Sugru Amazon are selling it cheaply at the moment.
 

Jazzaferri

Well-Known Member
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2,702
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Victoria BC Canada
If you want to make your own SUGRU all you need is a tube of RTV silicone and corn starch. Probably on youtube now.
 

David Dorning

Senior Member
Messages
797
Locality
Chichester, UK
@David Dorning Plastiform comes in small white plastic pellets. When these are heated in boiling water, the pellets turn transparent and become "plastic" so that they can be combined, shaped and molded. I have found that when molding the plastic it is helpful to wear latex gloves and to do it on wax paper to keep the plastic smooth. When removing the plastic from the hot water there is a window of time before it cools and hardens becoming solid white again.

One of the great advantages of plastiform is that it can be reinserted into hot water to reshape or to remove completely leaving no trace or damage to the key. I am currently working on a way to electroplate the plastic
with brass or silver plating so that it matches the rest of the saxophone. The photo below is a Buescher curved soprano that I made palm key risers for. These were designed to snap on or off.

View attachment 8917

Sorry @jbtsax, I must have hit the "panic don't understand" icon by mistake. I do that from time to time when swishing the ipad then get helpful but unexpected messages like this! But thanks for taking the trouble to reply. I have just researched Sugru as a result of this thread (silicone polymer) so I'm now even better informed about possible riser extension material. Will try to take more care in future when swishing!
 
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