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Sheet Music sheet music comprehension question

frankiejb59

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39
Hello. i seem to be getting quite flowy at reading and playing to sheet music. however i bought two books on playing blues and jazz and above the score there is a mention of be flat and e flat saxes next to them they have what looks like a chord or scale indicator. for example on a teack called "hard hearted hannah" on the top three bars above the score there is written: b flat sax. F c7Aug F c7aug F C7aug F F7. these looks likes chords. what''s the purpose of these in respect to me? I play tenor.
 

Nick Wyver

noisy
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5,950
If you have a friend who plays guitar he can play those chords to accompany you. Since you play tenor he'd play off the ones marked Bb.
 

Colin the Bear

Well-Known Member
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13,079
The chord progression is the ribs of a piece to hang the meat of your improvisation on. Simply sticking to the notes in each chord will give you an in tune basic solo.

Perhaps the chords are for an improvised intro to the song. Perhaps they've kindly transposed to Bb for you. If the song is in Eb then on tenor you play in F. If in C you play in D etc

Reading a tone up is a handy thing to be able to do on a Bb instrument. I used to look over the guitar players shoulder at his chord book on a new piece I wasn't sure of.

Not so simple on an Eb instrument. Standing in on Baritone while the double bass player takes the mike for a vocal and reading from his chord book makes for an interesting variation to the line up.


For you as a tenor player the chords are there for reference and an aid to get you through a piece you can't hear your way through.

It's why they teach you arpeggios innit?
 

frankiejb59

Member
Messages
39
The chord progression is the ribs of a piece to hang the meat of your improvisation on. Simply sticking to the notes in each chord will give you an in tune basic solo.



Perhaps the chords are for an improvised intro to the song. Perhaps they've kindly transposed to Bb for you. If the song is in Eb then on tenor you play in F. If in C you play in D etc

Reading a tone up is a handy thing to be able to do on a Bb instrument. I used to look over the guitar players shoulder at his chord book on a new piece I wasn't sure of.

Not so simple on an Eb instrument. Standing in on Baritone while the double bass player takes the mike for a vocal and reading from his chord book makes for an interesting variation to the line up.


For you as a tenor player the chords are there for reference and an aid to get you through a piece you can't hear your way through.

It's why they teach you arpeggios innit?
You mean like changing scale? I think my sax books only have about 4 scales and those are majors and minors. no diminsehed or augmented. I used those when i was learning music theory back when i first picked up an instrument back in the dark ages. Difficult picking up a piano. they aren't exactly light :)
 

frankiejb59

Member
Messages
39
If you have a friend who plays guitar he can play those chords to accompany you. Since you play tenor he'd play off the ones marked Bb.
That sounds proper, i have a friend who plays alto sax but these days he's focused more on guitar. An excuse to jam with him methinks.
 

kevgermany

ex Landrover Nut
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21,947
The question with these chords is if they're in concert pitch for an accompanist to follow - or transposed for your instrument.

They may be transposed for your intrument so that improvisors thinking in the instrument key, not concert know what to play around. But your guitar playing mate should be able to work it out if he ahas a sax background.
 

Colin the Bear

Well-Known Member
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13,079
You mean like changing scale? I think my sax books only have about 4 scales and those are majors and minors. no diminsehed or augmented. I used those when i was learning music theory back when i first picked up an instrument back in the dark ages. Difficult picking up a piano. they aren't exactly light :)

It's basic music theory. Get yourself a theory book and plod along with that. Let's see if I can remember how it goes.



The major chord C is CEG first interval 4 semitones second interval 3 semitones.

C minor would be CEbG. First interval 3 semitones, second interval 4 semitones

C augmented would be CEG# 4 semitones 4 semitones.


Cdiminished C Dim would be C EbGb 3 semitone 3 semitones



The seventh is the seventh note of the scale flattened.

So C7 is CEGBb. Cmin7 is CEbGBb

Cmaj7 would have an un flattened 7th so CEGB

CAug7 would be CEG#Bb

I've used C for each chord but Cminor isn't in the key of C major of course. A minor is the relative for C


I remember how confusing it can be when starting out. After a while you'll just hear and play them.

Try this exercise CGEB DFAC EGBD FACE GBDF ACEG BDFA.

(Cmaj7 Dmin7 Emin7 Fmaj7 G7 Amin7 Bdim7)



It was an exercise Kathy Stobbart gave me as a simple way of practicing all the chords in a given scale.

Once you've got it off in C and can hear the changes move around and try different keys. I start on C and go up in whole tones till I'm back at C. Your brain may turn to jelly before you get back to C.

Then when you see a chord written down you'll know where the ribs are to add your meat.

And you thought the sax was one note at a time
 

frankiejb59

Member
Messages
39
It's basic music theory. Get yourself a theory book and plod along with that. Let's see if I can remember how it goes.



The major chord C is CEG first interval 4 semitones second interval 3 semitones.

C minor would be CEbG. First interval 3 semitones, second interval 4 semitones

C augmented would be CEG# 4 semitones 4 semitones.


Cdiminished C Dim would be C EbGb 3 semitone 3 semitones



The seventh is the seventh note of the scale flattened.

So C7 is CEGBb. Cmin7 is CEbGBb

Cmaj7 would have an un flattened 7th so CEGB

CAug7 would be CEG#Bb

I've used C for each chord but Cminor isn't in the key of C major of course. A minor is the relative for C


I remember how confusing it can be when starting out. After a while you'll just hear and play them.

Try this exercise CGEB DFAC EGBD FACE GBDF ACEG BDFA.

(Cmaj7 Dmin7 Emin7 Fmaj7 G7 Amin7 Bdim7)



It was an exercise Kathy Stobbart gave me as a simple way of practicing all the chords in a given scale.

Once you've got it off in C and can hear the changes move around and try different keys. I start on C and go up in whole tones till I'm back at C. Your brain may turn to jelly before you get back to C.

Then when you see a chord written down you'll know where the ribs are to add your meat.

And you thought the sax was one note at a time
You mean they are arpegios. :). so i just play the relevent arpegios to that scale? that makes sense.
 

aldevis

Surrealist Contributor.
Cafe Moderator
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12,125
The major chord C is CEG first interval 4 semitones second interval 3 semitones.

C minor would be CEbG. First interval 3 semitones, second interval 4 semitones

C augmented would be CEG# 4 semitones 4 semitones.


Cdiminished C Dim would be C EbGb 3 semitone 3 semitones
Please allow me to disagree. This approach (common among guitarists and shared by Jimmy Dorsey) will not put chords in harmonic context. Try to find a proper theory/harmony book and start from page 1.

Back to the op, as Nick said, you play the dots, your guitar player plays one of the lines if you play an Eb saxophone, The other if you play a Bb horn.
 

Colin the Bear

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13,079
Please allow me to disagree. This approach (common among guitarists and shared by Jimmy Dorsey) will not put chords in harmonic context. Try to find a proper theory/harmony book and start from page 1.
Always willing to learn. Could you expand?
 

frankiejb59

Member
Messages
39
Please allow me to disagree. This approach (common among guitarists and shared by Jimmy Dorsey) will not put chords in harmonic context. Try to find a proper theory/harmony book and start from page 1.

Back to the op, as Nick said, you play the dots, your guitar player plays one of the lines if you play an Eb saxophone, The other if you play a Bb horn.
I did music theory as a youngster. I played piano then and bass guitar since. As a newbiw to sax, the books i have train on in major and minor scales however if all those chords are are meant as arpegios why do they have a score below the chords? also why not just write the damned notes in? seems odd to me.
 

aldevis

Surrealist Contributor.
Cafe Moderator
Messages
12,125
Always willing to learn. Could you expand?
It would require quite long time and energy... I can try to give an example...

A major chord (triad) is made of a major third and a perfect fifth, a minor chord (triad) by a minor third and a perfect fifth.
This approach relates all the notes with the root.

If you expand |Dm G7 Cmaj| you will find out that all the notes belong to the C major scale, these are chords related with the main tonality.

If you build chords using semitones you may end up with chords like Ab minor written |Ab B Eb| or |G# Cb D#| letting you loose the actual harmonic function.


I did music theory as a youngster. I played piano then and bass guitar since. As a newbiw to sax, the books i have train on in major and minor scales however if all those chords are are meant as arpegios why do they have a score below the chords? also why not just write the damned notes in? seems odd to me.
Because your guitar player is supposed to play them...
 

frankiejb59

Member
Messages
39
It would require quite long time and energy... I can try to give an example...

A major chord (triad) is made of a major third and a perfect fifth, a minor chord (triad) by a minor third and a perfect fifth.
This approach relates all the notes with the root.

If you expand |Dm G7 Cmaj| you will find out that all the notes belong to the C major scale, these are chords related with the main tonality.

If you build chords using semitones you may end up with chords like Ab minor written |Ab B Eb| or |G# Cb D#| letting you loose the actual harmonic function.




Because your guitar player is supposed to play them...
So the guitar player plays the chords and i accompany him on sax. sounds easy :)
 

Colin the Bear

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,079
It would require quite long time and energy... I can try to give an example...

A major chord (triad) is made of a major third and a perfect fifth, a minor chord (triad) by a minor third and a perfect fifth.
This approach relates all the notes with the root.

If you expand |Dm G7 Cmaj| you will find out that all the notes belong to the C major scale, these are chords related with the main tonality.

If you build chords using semitones you may end up with chords like Ab minor written |Ab B Eb| or |G# Cb D#| letting you loose the actual harmonic function.

Yes I understand where you're coming from. Op asked about C7Aug and was trying to explain that. In simple terms. Did you read the whole of my post? Selective editing in a quote is quite mischievous. Understandable for a humorous outcome. Didn't see anything funny here.
 

aldevis

Surrealist Contributor.
Cafe Moderator
Messages
12,125
Yes I understand where you're coming from. Op asked about C7Aug and was trying to explain that. In simple terms. Did you read the whole of my post? Selective editing in a quote is quite mischievous. Understandable for a humorous outcome. Didn't see anything funny here.
I just quoted the bit that brought me back to Jimmy Dorsey's book: my first contact with harmony, that I had to revise completely one year later.
Your shortcut is very effective to build chords, but I strongly advice to understand harmony first (as you said, BTW)
 

frankiejb59

Member
Messages
39
Yes I understand where you're coming from. Op asked about C7Aug and was trying to explain that. In simple terms. Did you read the whole of my post? Selective editing in a quote is quite mischievous. Understandable for a humorous outcome. Didn't see anything funny here.
No. Op asked about the use of chords in saxophone sheet music which varies between Bb and Eb saxophones. Twoh explanations were given. As there there was additional score for the sax player to use then i think the chords were for the accompanying guitarist or pianist but the concept of writing everything in arpegio does keep everything within its scales.
 
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